Audyssey XT Settings

[yellowcanary73]

This is my setup

Onkyo 809

Left and right are Klipsch RF-82II

Center RC-52II

RB-61II

Onkyo SKW-520 Sub

Ran the Audyssey XT three times these are the setting it came up with.

R/L 40Hz all three times:Should these be set to 80Hz

Center First -100Hz Second -80Hz THX Third -70Hz:I keep it on the 70Hz

Surrounds 40Hz All three times Should these be set to 80Hz

Sub at 120 FLE

None are set to fullband

Thoughts on these settings

Thank You

[cornfedksboy]

40/70/70 is reasonable for your R/L, C, Surrounds respectively. 80 Hz is the recommended minimum for THX surround sound so I would try and avoid anything above 80. You can see my speakers in my sig. Mine are set up as 40, 50, 60, 70 Hz for R/L, Rears, Center, Surrounds respectively.

[Heritage_Head]

Large

Large

Large

Large

Is how mine are set []

[JasonJCarney]

If you set the 82's to 80 hz you'll be missing out on alot of info that the 82's can handle..... losing alot of bass....[pi]

[StephenM]

Reference Head: Dare I ask how you came to that conclusion? A little light reading: http://www.audyssey.com/blog/2009/05/small-vs-large/

[StephenM]

If you set the 82's to 80 hz you'll be missing out on alot of info that the 82's can handle..... losing alot of bass....

I would agree not to set the RF-82s to 80Hz in this case, although not because there will be a loss of bass, which is incorrect. Bass under 80Hz would simply be rerouted to the subwoofer. However, in this case, I'd be willing to bet that the RF-82s will provide better quality in the 40-80Hz octave than the OP's subwoofer, and frankly that sub can use all the help it can get. I'd agree with cornfed that 40/70/70 is reasonable for the OP's system, although he can play with it to his heart's content.

[cornfedksboy]

Reference Head: Dare I ask how you came to that conclusion? A little light reading: http://www.audyssey.com/blog/2009/05/small-vs-large/

I read the above and there was nothing in the content that was new to me (except where the .1 came from), and I have two questions:

1) If your system (speakers, amps, and processor) is capable of reproducing the full range of sound (and I'm not saying that Reference Head's system is), does it matter if your speakers are set to large or small? That is to say that if you can recreate 20 Hz to 20 KHz for all 5/7 speakers without loss in current/impedence/watts/THD/etc., is there anything you gain by setting your system to small?

2) Doesn't most source material contain a discrete LFE channel in order to limit low frequency strain on your system, and if so, if you had great 5 channel speakers and a weak sub, might you over-strain your sub by sending additional low frequency signals to the hypothetical "weak link?"

I'm looking for clarification on my line of thinking here in case I've missed something.

[Zen Traveler]

1) If your system (speakers, amps, and processor) is capable of reproducing the full range of sound (and I'm not saying that Reference Head's system is), does it matter if your speakers are set to large or small? That is to say that if you can recreate 20 Hz to 20 KHz for all 5/7 speakers without loss in current/impedence/watts/THD/etc., is there anything you gain by setting your system to small?

2) Doesn't most source material contain a discrete LFE channel in order to limit low frequency strain on your system, and if so, if you had great 5 channel speakers and a weak sub, might you over-strain your sub by sending additional low frequency signals to the hypothetical "weak link?"

I'm looking for clarification on my line of thinking here in case I've missed something.

1) In a perfect world no, but what speakers do you suggest reproduce the full range of sound effectively and what will you be driving them with? [^o)] In the real world the more prudent question to ask is at what frequency is your sub better to hit those notes and blend with your other speakers and have a seamless sound environment while wasting the least amount of energy.

2) Yes, Who in their right mind would have a great sound system and then skimp on the sub? [:S] If they did, they may have well not purchased the sub in your above scenario and direct the LFE material to their mains.

EDIT NOTE: No matter what I drive my RF-7s with my dual RSW subs are going to hit anything below 60 Hz with more thump because they each have a 650 watt continuous/2400 watts peak Bash amp and that takes alot of strain off of my AVR and allows my Home Theater blends seamlessly.

[cornfedksboy]

Thanks for your response. My post was purely hypothetical. I am aware of the real world limitations of a system, but I wanted some confirmation that my line of thought was correct.

[Quiet_Hollow]

In addition bass + bass + bass ? simply more bass. The only time sound from two or more sources sum is when it reaches the listener in absolute phase with each other, to include all the harmonics. Then, they only sum logarithmically, a lot less than you think. Otherwise they are working against one another. This is a waste of power at the listening position, destroys transient response, and puts a bunch of errant energy into the room to vibrate, among other things, the walls, shelves, neighbors, etc. Factor in that each bass driver contributes their own distortion and the whole situation quickly becomes a steaming pile of audio. It is much easier to manage bass from a single point. However, If you're going the multiple source route, they had best be identical in response, exhibit low distortion, and be controlled by a DSP that can manage all their timing in a closed-loop fashion.

[StephenM]

) If your system (speakers, amps, and processor) is capable of reproducing the full range of sound (and I'm not saying that Reference Head's system is), does it matter if your speakers are set to large or small? That is to say that if you can recreate 20 Hz to 20 KHz for all 5/7 speakers without loss in current/impedence/watts/THD/etc., is there anything you gain by setting your system to small?

You've gotten some good info already, but I've got a couple additions: As per the article, you still lose the full power of Audyssey's processing and room correction with MultEQ and MultEQ XT, although XT32 applies the same high resolution filters to the subwoofer and speakers. See the chart at the bottom: http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq

In addition, bass response is more consistent by rerouting bass to the subwoofer: even if you had five or seven of the exact same speaker that was capable down to 20Hz, by positioning them in different areas of the room, their response will be inconsistent with one another (and the subwoofer). By rerouting all bass to a dedicated subwoofer system, this is no longer an issue.

[cornfedksboy]

Thanks for all the responses! I wanted to know what I wasn't thinking about in my post and you all have provided good info. Thanks again!

[yellowcanary73]

This sub is just a left over from my cheap Onkyo setup will be replacing in next couple months after I research subs.Had a chance to purchase the Klipsch at a great price so I jumped while I had the cash.I'll have to live with this sub till I find what I want.

[Heritage_Head]

1) If your system (speakers, amps, and processor) is capable of reproducing the full range of sound (and I'm not saying that Reference Head's system is), does it matter if your speakers are set to large or small? That is to say that if you can recreate 20 Hz to 20 KHz for all 5/7 speakers without loss in current/impedence/watts/THD/etc., is there anything you gain by setting your system to small?

2) Doesn't most source material contain a discrete LFE channel in order to limit low frequency strain on your system, and if so, if you had great 5 channel speakers and a weak sub, might you over-strain your sub by sending additional low frequency signals to the hypothetical "weak link?"

I'm looking for clarification on my line of thinking here in case I've missed something.

1) In a perfect world no, but what speakers do you suggest reproduce the full range of sound effectively and what will you be driving them with? In the real world the more prudent question to ask is at what frequency is your sub better to hit those notes and blend with your other speakers and have a seamless sound environment while wasting the least amount of energy.

2) Yes, Who in their right mind would have a great sound system and then skimp on the sub? If they did, they may have well not purchased the sub in your above scenario and direct the LFE material to their mains.

EDIT NOTE: No matter what I drive my RF-7s with my dual RSW subs are going to hit anything below 60 Hz with more thump because they each have a 650 watt continuous/2400 watts peak Bash amp and that takes alot of strain off of my AVR and allows my Home Theater blends seamlessly.

I set everything too large to reduce the amount of mid bass

content to my subs. Movie content doesn’t have super low frequency content to any of the speakers

anyways so by setting your speakers to small (at say80hz) your only really

redirecting frequencies in the 50hz-80hz range . To me adding all that

extra mid bass to your sub makes it sound boomy. I see it on my screen with the

sms-1 eq it runs its tone out of all the speakers not just the subs so I can

see what is really happing. I totally understand all the logic of it and there

are arguments to support both sides. But if you crossover your fronts at say

40hz you’re not changing anything because there is no content below that on the

movie to the fronts anyways so what are you crossing over? If you crossover

your surrounds at 50 Hz you’re not changing anything because movies don’t have

content to the rears below 50 Hz. I run only lfe content to the subs and imo that’s

when they sound there best. All my speakers can handle 50 Hz and up pretty

easily.

I have spent many many hours reading both sides and have

kept an open mind to both ways. I ran my stuff set too small for a long time. But

after having a long conversation with a SVS tech guy he explained that sound engineers

who make movies don’t put low content into these speakers so the change is

small and in fact if you crossover to high at say 80hz you can end up with too much

mid bass going to your sub. Make sense?

[Heritage_Head]

Plus it comes down to what sounds best. If it sounded better

to run them as small I would. If you’re set up sounds better setting it to

small then you should keep them small. We should never do something just because

other people like it that way. I have tried it a lot of ways and this is how it

sounds best so far. I think we get hung up on doing things because that’s what might

technically be the best way. I wasn’t recommending it just saying it’s how I set

up mine.

[StephenM]

Movie content doesnt have super low frequency content to any of the speakers anyways so by setting your speakers to small (at say80hz) your only really redirecting frequencies in the 50hz-80hz range anyways.

FYI, Dolby does spec that each discrete channel is full range: http://www.ti.com/lit/an/spra724/spra724.pdf

Five full bandwidth channels with frequency range of 20 Hz to 20 kHz. A sixth channel, the Low Frequency Effects Channel, reproduces 3 to 120 Hz. This channel, with limited frequency response, is referred to as the .1 channel.

But after having a long conversation with a SVS tech guy he explained that sound engineers who make movies dont put low content into these speakers

Some do, some don't. For the front channels though, I would practically count on the channels being utilized full range, reason being that if the analog outputs are utilized on a DVD player, the only bass that will be left is that on the front channels (LFE is thrown away).

[Heritage_Head]

Movie content doesn’t have super low frequency content to any of the speakers anyways so by setting your speakers to small (at say80hz) your only really redirecting frequencies in the 50hz-80hz range anyways.

FYI, Dolby does spec that each discrete channel is full range: http://www.ti.com/lit/an/spra724/spra724.pdf

Five full bandwidth channels with frequency range of 20 Hz to 20 kHz. A sixth channel, the Low Frequency Effects Channel, reproduces 3 to 120 Hz. This channel, with limited frequency response, is referred to as the “.1” channel.

But after having a long conversation with a SVS tech guy he explained that sound engineers who make movies don’t put low content into these speakers

Some do, some don't. For the front channels though, I would practically count on the channels being utilized full range, reason being that if the analog outputs are utilized on a DVD player, the only bass that will be left is that on the front channels (LFE is thrown away).

Full range capability doesn’t mean anything other than it
has the ability to process 20-20k. The content material in movies just doesn’t
have super low content to those channels. So just because it can doesn’t
mean it automatically will. I will say it again sound engineers have no reason
to put that type of content into those channels so they don’t. When you listen to music its full range right?
But that doesn’t mean you’re hearing 20 Hz because most music doesn’t go any
lower than 30hz.It’s the same thing with movies full range just means that it
will get the full content of that channel which just happens to be in the
50-20,000 range. So again it comes
down to what is really being crossed over. In theory yes if movies had low
content (like lower than 30 Hz) going to those channels then it would be very useful.
But that’s just not the case.

[Heritage_Head]

On your 2^nd part yes if the sub was turned off

the fronts would get a full load. That’s one example why it’s important for the

channels to be full range 20-20k. But when the sub is set to yes the fronts don’t

get lfe info its separate.

I have read in some forums people saying large means they do

but that is absolutely wrong.

[Rich_Guy]

Of course I feel everyone should experiment with their own settings and ultimately use what they determine sounds best to them.

That said I highly encourage people to set their speakers to small when using a quality subwoofer. Just as your speakers have internal crossovers directing sound to the correct speaker woofer/tweeter etc. when using a good subwoofer you should use small and adjust the crossover for the best match and blend of your speakers. This has several advantages and will normally result in cleaner and more detailed sound when done properly. Using the crossover keeps the speakers working at their best levels, uses amp power more efficiently, normally cleaning up muddied bass and also cleaning up distortions caused by speakers trying to work beyond their range.

Labeling the setting SMALL / LARGE causes many people to think "Well I have large speakers, so my speakers should be set to LARGE". It would be better if this was labeled USING SUBWOOFER / NOT USING SUBWOOFER. When using a subwoofer the crossover should be set to what works best with the speakers and sub being used.

[Zen Traveler]

The content material in movies just doesn’t have super low content to those channels. So just because it can doesn’t mean it automatically will. I will say it again sound engineers have no reason to put that type of content into those channels so they don’t...

Where is a reference for this assumption? EDIT: I also cross my RF-7s at 60 Hz because anything lower than that my RSW subs can handle better.