madfusker Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Hi all, I got my XPA5 several months ago and now have been able to drive my RF83's with some good power now. I have a UMC1 and listen to music around 50 and the highest ever gone is 60, but I understand there are a million variables to what these numbers actually mean. Bottom line I drive the RF83s pretty hard once in a great while, but not so hard to break a driver cone (i didn't think). Anyway, I have one that cracked out and I'm wondering how that could happen to a 300W speaker with a 250W amp? Is it possible they get weak with age and can crack out? At the level the drivers do move in and out quite a bit, but not more than I expected. Does Klipsch do anything about this or am I out? Guessing they are out of warranty. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Anyway, I have one that cracked out and I'm wondering how that could happen to a 300W speaker with a 250W amp? Easy, it was over driven. Ratings are not very relevant except to compare like products from the same manufacturer. Power rating is based on a laboratory measurement, where as music content can be quite a bit different. I would never dream of pushing 200+ watts into a home loudspeaker, not for long anyway. I've said it before, if you want to play loud, you have to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I agree, I could break my 7's easy with my upa7(125 watts) if I cranked it up for very long.At about 55 on volume(calibrated at 0) my 7's are pounding very hard, at 60 for long I'm sure something would give. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenM Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Anyway, I have one that cracked out and I'm wondering how that could happen to a 300W speaker with a 250W amp? Couple of thoughts: 1. The RF-83 is rated for 250W RMS as per http://www.klipsch.com/rf-83 ; also while the Emotiva is rated for 250WPC into an 8 ohm load, it is also rated for 300WPC RMS into a 4 ohm load. Since the RF-83 has dips down to 4 ohms and under (minimum is somewhere in the 2.x ohm range), it is feasible that an XPA5 could apply more RMS power than the RF-83 is rated for. 2. If the RF-83s were being played in stereo mode with no subwoofer or high pass filter to protect it from lower frequencies, it is possible with the right material being played that you could bottom out (and damage) the woofers, as cone excursion goes wild below tuning frequency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elitedemo Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 i currently dont have a sub so my 83s are set to large/full and the xpa2 not 5 is driving my 83s, ive maxed out my level on stereo to see what it was like and have listened at near max for reasonable amounts of time and even had them cranked for hours between 50-60 on my umc, im thinking the 83s can take quite a beating and guessing your occurance maybe just a weak woofer or bad luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Steve makes a few good points.I would however think that the rating is at all freq the speaker is capable of playing, I'm not sure.I do know if you send 250 watts to a 7 or 83(I've owned both) and crank up the bass for long the speaker will fail, driver or cabinet or both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 i currently dont have a sub so my 83s are set to large/full and the xpa2 not 5 is driving my 83s, ive maxed out my level on stereo to see what it was like and have listened at near max for reasonable amounts of time and even had them cranked for hours between 50-60 on my umc, im thinking the 83s can take quite a beating and guessing your occurance maybe just a weak woofer or bad luck There is always a possibilty a speaker could have a defect, it should have failed within warranty if so.I don't see how you can max out for long.How could your ears possibly take it, ask by someone that enjoys loud sometimes? My guess is If you continue that your speakers will also fail.Last....your hearing should be damaged forever if you're in the same room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elitedemo Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 ive fortunately encountered 0 issues with them being driven at the levels ive done with the exception of sore ears later on, maybe i can count myself being lucky or my music selection may have been more forgiving as they dont tend to be bass heavy edit replying to fish, i will add i am not in that room for those extended periods of time and am either somewhere else in the house or outside, both of which i can hear it quite well and wouldnt subject myself to anything much above 50 as id like to keep some of my hearing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenM Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 maybe i can count myself being lucky or my music selection may have been more forgiving as they dont tend to be bass heavy That plays a big role. If you play the cannonfire from the Telarc SACD release of the 1812 Overture at full volume, odds are decent you'd be ordering some replacement parts soon thereafter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenM Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I would however think that the rating is at all freq the speaker is capable of playing, I'm not sure. Nah; pretty much any tweeter designed for home use cannot withstand that kind of continuous power, nor realistically do they need to. Also worth noting with my point #2 above, going below tuning frequency of a ported box is typically outside the bounds of "frequencies a speaker is capable of playing", at least playing effectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madfusker Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 Thanks for all the replies everyone. I do play them at 50 quite a bit and yes it's loud and I can feel the bass however it's not ear bleeding loud. I guess I have a big room and maybe it gets absorbed in the openness. The only time I push 60 is if the audio is ripped at a lower level and it just needs pushed up a little to get the bass going. I do have a sub and it does pick up some of the low freq but maybe I need to adjust the settings. As far as why it failed now instead of in warranty, well I got these speakers used and only had about a 100W amp for over a year before getting the XPA5. The original owner had an under powered amp too so these speakers have never really been driven until now. I suppose it's possible that it was a weak driver given that none of the others have failed, but I do know they get pushed pretty hard with bass at the 50 level on some songs. I think I will replace it and see how it goes from here. I would like to have some input as to what people have their UMC1 set for pertaining to crossover and how they have their mains are setup as far as large or small. The sub I have puts out some bass however I really like the bass the RF83's can put out to supplement the sub. I would rather use the RF83's to potential instead of buying another sub for the additional base. With 6 drivers you *have* to take advantage of it somewhat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madfusker Posted September 15, 2011 Author Share Posted September 15, 2011 62 beans for a driver. Pretty reasonable I thought.... The Klipsch tech thought it would be pretty hard to do that with my amp without going into high flutter. I know when I got these speakers used, that same speaker had one of the other drivers cracked out. The seller was happy to replace it when i emailed him so I am guessing he may have pushed them a little harder than he was suppose to. I have my fingers crossed that just that one driver was weakened and I won't have any more problems. I got this pair dirt cheap so I'm not unhappy at all. I still don't have $1,000 in them and love how they sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elitedemo Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 very likely that person was straining them with a weak receiver, as i mentioned ive let mine scream for hours on end, thats a pretty decent price for the driver, you said one was cracked prior, another one now, any chance the third one looks weakend too? id inspect all of them closely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I suspect your sub is having a tough time keeping up at high output, leading you to crank the volume to compensate. Lose the RT-10D and get a pair or three of better subs; high pass your 83s at 60-80 and let the better subs handle the rest. You'll get higher spl, better dynamics, and lower risk of craking another woofer. Definitely check the other drivers, since those 83's have already been rode hard and put away wet by the previous owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhvenier Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I drive my 83's to the hilt with a slightly modified Hafler DH-500, so I push the 225 WPC envelope all the time. My 83's seem to scream for more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madfusker Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 I opened my box to replace the woofer today and it's a RB81 driver! What the heck?? They fit the same hole but seriously? The tech knew what I had and they are a different part number. Sheshh.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nu2toobs Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 OT, Madhusker, your username is appropriate after last night.[:'(] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madfusker Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 Yes, it is! What a shellacking! Football season is over now. hahahaha Time to play with my RF83's instead. If I remember right it came about in Jan 1994 when I was signing up on a site and needed a username. It was after losing to FL State in the Orange bowl 16-18 in which they went out 11 and 1 (a losing season by most in NE). After 1993 it was 2 years back to back national championships which made up for it I guess. But now,,, just madhusker ever since Osborne left. It's getting better though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madfusker Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 BTW - I stuck that RB81 in for now and just going to use it until I get the right one. The mangnet on it is much smaller than the RF83 driver but the rest looks the same. I sure hope they don't tell me tomorrow that the RB81 is the new replacement! I don't think that will work having different magnet sizes across the 3 drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madfusker Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 OK, so they send me a "real" RF83 and I get the thing, open the box, and it's a RF83 refirb driver dated 2006! The thing is beat to heck with epoxy spilled on it and the magnet is all chipped up like it was rolling around in a freight truck for several weeks! Old masking tape residue on it too! Not only that, it also has a smaller magnet! It looks identical to the RB81 with the smaller magnet, only it's stamped RF83. What the heck??? Are they playing games? What to do? It doesn't match what I have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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