Islander Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 I have definitely underestimated the technical expertise of the forum members here. I may have framed my initial question differently had I known the knowledge-base that existed in this forum. I'm happy to delve into numbers if the discussion takes that route. What I DO NOT KNOW, however, is what to listen for. I need to start bridging the gap between the two. What does the expected (ideal) response SOUND like? This is where I'm excited to evolve. I know the science, but not the art. I don't mind admitting that most of what I currently know about audio was learned over the five years I've spent on this forum. There are some pretty knowledgeable folks here, and some of them are able to express what they know in terms that non-engineers can understand.As for what to listen for, do what PWK would do. Listen to live music. That's the way to calibrate your ears, since the goal of loudspeakers, and Klipsch loudspeakers in particular, is to recreate the sensation of listening to live music. Their detail retrieval and realistic dynamics are what set them apart from most other speakers.Not all recordings can do it, but some can allow you to close your eyes and really feel as if the performer is in the room with you, or you're in the performance space with the performers. Get yourself some recordings that have that quality, and listen, at different times and in different moods. It's a fun kind of homework. Oh, and don't forget to keep your head down when you're at work. And come home safe, okay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 I've got tons of leave when I get back, and am thinking I'm going to need to start finding where these configurations exist. Should be some fun travels ahead Just for the record.... if you find yourself in/near Jacksonville, FL, you are more than welcome to come by my place and give a listen to the Jubilee's. Who knows, I might even be able to scrounge a JubeScala together (have empty cabinet, needs woofer and bottom hatch cover) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 If you would like to learn more about the reality and misconceptions of past/present day sound reproduction and (acoustics and the interaction of loudspeakers, room and listener) and haven't read any of Toole's research papers I would highly recommend the following book to you. Also do a google search for any papers by him. Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms, by Floyd E. Toole http://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reproduction-Acoustics-Psychoacoustics-Loudspeakers/dp/0240520092 mike tn Nice, here is another book or DVD by Jim Smith to aid setup. http://www.getbettersound.com/ Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandoyen Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 So purely hypothetical at this point... Well...I ended up getting the 402, and thought "eh, what the hell? I'll get the bass bins to go with it!" [] K-horns went to father as Xmas present a couple years ahead of schedule. Call me impatient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Correct if I am wrong but I thought there was a "practical" schematic publically posted by Roy (Delgado) for a passive K-402 network. It was practical in terms of a relatively low parts count and provided some CD boost that would be required. I know there are other much more elaborate passive designs for that horn. I think my memory is intact, but how would I know? yes...see attched pdf KPTKHJKPT402K69A.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever55 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I dunno, that khorn LF sprays its upper passband energy all over the place...might help to have some wider polars at the xover to help line up a bit better. Also, most rooms don't have a flat power response (even when treated because they're too small) and there is also a need for extra LF energy to increase the density of the semi-reverberant decay at those frequencies. Collapsing polars in the vertical would be one method to tailor the energy launched into the room without affecting the on-axis response. I definitely think the beaming of the classic Klipsch exponentials is too dramatic, but you do see some amount of beaming with the K402. You might recall there being way too much HF energy when using a BMS coax - even though it measured the same on-axis. I attribute this to much wider HF polars in an untreated room. I think something like the K403 would be a much better fit to the khorn LF, and would also be easier to voice. The K403 is also taking the classic Klipsch collapsed polars, which will have a voicing more similar to the original khorn....which in rooms where the stock khorns sound nice, would be without a doubt a perceived improvement in all regards. The K403 also allows you to go 2-way. I dunno if it would fit in the tophat and all that shnazz, but that's a different issue. I actually think it's a shame that more people aren't targeting going 2-way...at the end of the day it is going to be cheaper and better, provided the appropriate xover magic is implemented. I better get back to work... Is the 403 available ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever55 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I dunno, that khorn LF sprays its upper passband energy all over the place...might help to have some wider polars at the xover to help line up a bit better. Also, most rooms don't have a flat power response (even when treated because they're too small) and there is also a need for extra LF energy to increase the density of the semi-reverberant decay at those frequencies. Collapsing polars in the vertical would be one method to tailor the energy launched into the room without affecting the on-axis response. I definitely think the beaming of the classic Klipsch exponentials is too dramatic, but you do see some amount of beaming with the K402. You might recall there being way too much HF energy when using a BMS coax - even though it measured the same on-axis. I attribute this to much wider HF polars in an untreated room. I think something like the K403 would be a much better fit to the khorn LF, and would also be easier to voice. The K403 is also taking the classic Klipsch collapsed polars, which will have a voicing more similar to the original khorn....which in rooms where the stock khorns sound nice, would be without a doubt a perceived improvement in all regards. The K403 also allows you to go 2-way. I dunno if it would fit in the tophat and all that shnazz, but that's a different issue. I actually think it's a shame that more people aren't targeting going 2-way...at the end of the day it is going to be cheaper and better, provided the appropriate xover magic is implemented. I better get back to work... Is the 403 available ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever55 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Main motivation behind midhorn swap (minus improved sound) is that I want to use the K-400s to build a CornScala pair for my upstairs office My understanding is the CornScala is a mix of Cornwall bottom with the LaScala mids/highs. Keep in mind you can do the same thing with the K510 and achieve two things: 1. Keep it a 2-way system 2. Keep the tonal balance so if/when you get some Khorns, you can perhaps use the same horn on a center channel speaker. Food for thought Has anyone done a cornscala 2 way with the 510 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I have a 1" horn similar to the K510 running above of my Chorus II K-48 woofers - definitely something to consider. Would that be a chorscala? It is defiintely something that is doable. As far as I know, the K403 isn't available. I wonder if Klemenvich (or however that's spelled) still has his mold from when he copied the wooden version that Valerie has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 So purely hypothetical at this point... Well...I ended up getting the 402, and thought "eh, what the hell? I'll get the bass bins to go with it!" K-horns went to father as Xmas present a couple years ahead of schedule. Call me impatient. Nice! Did that finished front panel come from the factory, or is that something that you added? How do they sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I have a 1" horn similar to the K510 running above of my Chorus II K-48 woofers - definitely something to consider. Would that be a chorscala? It is defiintely something that is doable. As far as I know, the K403 isn't available. I wonder if Klemenvich (or however that's spelled) still has his mold from when he copied the wooden version that Valerie has. I don't think he copied the k403. He had Klipschorns with martinelli horns on top and he like them so well he used them with his golden jubilees. The martinelli horns are beautiful. I wish I had bought a pair while he was in business. Top notch stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 seti- You've got a great blog, tons of interesting literature! jw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 seti- You've got a great blog, tons of interesting literature! jw Thank you I just got 12 vintage mags so lots of fresh scans on the way [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 seti- You've got a great blog, tons of interesting literature! jw Thank you I just got 12 vintage mags so lots of fresh scans on the way Maybe not retro but girls with records- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 What about girls with headphones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Headphones are hifi, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 IS THAT A SIZE 402 ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Finally found a 402 he'd put on his lower horn.....I mean LF horn... Of course headphones count.... Gotta folder of those lol..... : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingBullWinkle Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Well I'm enjoying this thread, not sure what's more pleasing the second post or the head phone knobs near the end.. Stunning! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Ok... How about headphones AND records? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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