Breaking............ in a new Sub woofer....... Necessity or Nonsense?

[RRFL]

OK so they get louder as they loosen up and 10 volts for 12 hours saves repeated recalibration.

I'm considering the Tuba HT and have the plans for both HT & HT LP. I'm endeavouring to step up to a 36x36x36" cabinet to get the max frequency response with the Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference HF 4 ohm 500watt driver.

I started with 36x36x30 on its side in the rear left corner under the stairs out of site except for the mouth.

Now I'm considering the 36x36x36 suspended above the stairs mouth pointing down.

I anticipate that I could EQ the 30" wide cabinet to match with the 36" wide frequency performance as I expect I will need less than 30watts for momentary dramatic cinema levels and having plenty of head room appeals to me as distortion is reduced.

I have also been considering the LP version 36" wide and altering the mouth with an extra 90degree bend to exit from the side so it could be centre rear of the room behind the lounge.

I have also considered the LP version 36" wide and suspended flat against the ceiling central in respect of width of the room mouth towards the listening position.

From an architects point of view, under the stairs 36x36x30" is the most invisible compromise, though I do have a concern with the mouth being just behind at one end of the lounge.

If I did not break it in before installation It is likely it would not ever get to 10 volts.

[derrickdj1]

My answer is surprisinglyYes, I replaced my Klipsch sub this week with another brand sub and experienced the phenomenon of the sub being broke-in. I hooked it up and was not overly impressed, but after a few hours of music the sound improved greatly. My auto-calibration set the new sub to +3.5. After 3 days the sub sounded tighter and really good. I performed auto-calibration again without moving the sub and the sub setting went from +3.5 to -3.0. So, over a couple of days of normal use the sub improved in effieciecy, suoud qualty and overall performance. I am running a Klipsch Icon V HT and I am enjoying music and movies much more. It was not bad to begin with!

Pioneer Elite SC 35 avr

Klipsch VF 35 Front

Klipsch VC 25 Center

Klipsch VS 14 Front Height

Klipsch VS 14 Surronds

Klipsch VS 15 Surround Back

AA RW15 sub

[Youthman]

Derrick, I'm not trying to argue what you hear and by no means am I trying to offend but my perspective is that your ears just got used to the sound. I don't see how a sub can change sound in a few hours. It also seems strange to me that a sub would sound "tighter" when "breaking in" is supposed to loosen things up. []

[derrickdj1]

The volume definetly increased and maybe fuller would have been a better word than tighter. But, one thing for sure the sub auto-calibration setting changed and that may be due to the subwoofer loosening up? No offense taken I did not experience this with my other Klipsch system, Sony system or Onkyo system.These were not HTIB, lol.

[Youthman]

No offense taken

Phew! []

Regardless of what happened, you are now enjoying your sub and that's really all that matters. Turn it up!

[nezff]

This sounds like snake oil. Just like Bi-amping and monster cable.

I think you meant Biwiring which does absolutely nothing. Biamping is a different story.

[mustang guy]

OK so they get louder as they loosen up and 10 volts for 12 hours saves repeated recalibration.

I'm considering the Tuba HT and have the plans for both HT & HT LP. I'm endeavouring to step up to a 36x36x36" cabinet to get the max frequency response with the Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference HF 4 ohm 500watt driver.

I started with 36x36x30 on its side in the rear left corner under the stairs out of site except for the mouth.

Now I'm considering the 36x36x36 suspended above the stairs mouth pointing down.

I anticipate that I could EQ the 30" wide cabinet to match with the 36" wide frequency performance as I expect I will need less than 30watts for momentary dramatic cinema levels and having plenty of head room appeals to me as distortion is reduced.

I have also been considering the LP version 36" wide and altering the mouth with an extra 90degree bend to exit from the side so it could be centre rear of the room behind the lounge.

I have also considered the LP version 36" wide and suspended flat against the ceiling central in respect of width of the room mouth towards the listening position.

From an architects point of view, under the stairs 36x36x30" is the most invisible compromise, though I do have a concern with the mouth being just behind at one end of the lounge.

If I did not break it in before installation It is likely it would not ever get to 10 volts.

A 36X36X36 hanging over your head above the stairs? Holy crap! What on Earth are you building, a haunted house?

[RRFL]

This sounds like snake oil. Just like Bi-amping and monster cable.

I think you meant Biwiring which does absolutely nothing. Biamping is a different story.

In our commercial installations we Tri-wire with 25amp multi strand power cable used for house power outlets. We join the 3 conductors together at each end leaving one a bit longer to connect to the speaker and amp. We use one cable for positive and another for negative. This is mainly due to the long cable runs required from the amp rack to the speakers. The aim is to reduce the resistance in the cable to as low as possible. If you have a 2 ohm speaker and 2 ohm resistance in your cable then 50% of your amp power is consumed by the cable.

We also Bi-amp and Tri-amp which provides greater clarity in the system. These systems are often operating at full tilt all night in Hotels and clubs.

I will Bi-wire my Jubilee in this way but with normal twin conductor 3 mill speaker wire one cable for negative and one for positive and since they will also be Bi-amped there will be 4 cables to each speaker. This will be necessary as the Amps will not be next to the speakers but about 10 meters away. It is also important to ensure that both Left and Right speaker cables are exactly the same length other wise you will notice that one side is louder than the other.

I use 5 meter Monster Cable as the speaker leads between my Class A amp and my LaScala.

The only part of the copper wire that conducts is the outside as the electrons can move in this area. Therefore a multi strand wire will have less resistance than a solid core of the same diameter.

If you want to experience the difference cable makes use solid core telephone cable for one speaker and something better on the other side and then adjust the balance control to level the volume between the to channels. Then listen to the frequency response. You must set the system to mono. If you can't here the difference then for your hearing it does not matter. Everyones hearing is different depending on many things so what matters is only what you notice not what other people reckon. A good friend of mine can't hear the difference between the speakers in the TV and a reasonable sound system so for him a home theatre system is a total waste of time and money. He never goes to the Cinema either.

No one can say what another person hears unless they are Mr Spock from Start Trek and can do a Vulcan Mind Meld. The other thing to consider is colour and for some people Red might be Blue but how would you know since you learn't to recognise the colour you see and give it an agreed label.

There is no specifically correct answer, everything is personal and if it was not we would all be robots.

[nezff]

[:^)]

[RRFL]

OK so they get louder as they loosen up and 10 volts for 12 hours saves repeated recalibration.

I'm considering the Tuba HT and have the plans for both HT & HT LP. I'm endeavouring to step up to a 36x36x36" cabinet to get the max frequency response with the Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference HF 4 ohm 500watt driver.

I started with 36x36x30 on its side in the rear left corner under the stairs out of site except for the mouth.

Now I'm considering the 36x36x36 suspended above the stairs mouth pointing down.

I anticipate that I could EQ the 30" wide cabinet to match with the 36" wide frequency performance as I expect I will need less than 30watts for momentary dramatic cinema levels and having plenty of head room appeals to me as distortion is reduced.

I have also been considering the LP version 36" wide and altering the mouth with an extra 90degree bend to exit from the side so it could be centre rear of the room behind the lounge.

I have also considered the LP version 36" wide and suspended flat against the ceiling central in respect of width of the room mouth towards the listening position.

From an architects point of view, under the stairs 36x36x30" is the most invisible compromise, though I do have a concern with the mouth being just behind at one end of the lounge.

If I did not break it in before installation It is likely it would not ever get to 10 volts.

A 36X36X36 hanging over your head above the stairs? Holy crap! What on Earth are you building, a haunted house?

haha Freddy Krueger Father of Wolverine.

The tape measure hanging shows the corner of the 36x36x36 if it was hanging in the stair case that leads down to the Cinema Room.

[RRFL]

Looking upwards towards the same tape measure.

If I installed a Tuba HT LP 72x36x18 it could have the mouth between the beam and the wall with the cabinet extending to the ceiling above. This area is intended as a storage area.

[RRFL]

Another view from through the wall framing.

[RRFL]

Or I could stand a Tuba HT LP 72x36x18 on it's end under the stairs mouth up the top edge shown by the tape measure in this photo.

The chair in this photo represents the intended centre of the lounge when the stair case is modified to a 90 degree bend with 2 or 3 stairs in the bend and 2 or 3 stairs to the floor.

The cardboard hanging from the ceiling represents the side profile lower edge of the Heresy's that will be back to back with the rear surround sound reflecting from the walls.

The objective is to blend in the speakers for a minimalist appearance rather than a featured speaker system display.

[twistedcrankcammer]

My question is what do people think they are breaking in? Basically the only moving part on a woofer is the foam/rubber surround. And to put it simply yes you are breaking it. Every time the sub is on you are wearing it out. Any man made material can only take so much flexing before failure. This sounds like snake oil. Just like Bi-amping and monster cable.

Bi-Amping is DEFINATELY not snake oil. [8-|]

Roger

[dtel]

I DID break in my spud when I built it. Some dumb @ss [:$] wired one of the two drivers wrong and it had zero bass, just a little pansy/bose amount of bass, I thought I'll leave it play low overnight and see if it improves.

It did improve GREATLY when I went back the next day and found what I had done, I had the two drivers pushing against each other, break in I guess, yep that's the story ?

It works MUCH better when wired as designed, who would have thunk it ?

[oldenough]

This sounds like snake oil. Just like Bi-amping and monster cable.

I think you meant Biwiring which does absolutely nothing. Biamping is a different story.

In our commercial installations we Tri-wire with 25amp multi strand power cable used for house power outlets. We join the 3 conductors together at each end leaving one a bit longer to connect to the speaker and amp. We use one cable for positive and another for negative. This is mainly due to the long cable runs required from the amp rack to the speakers. The aim is to reduce the resistance in the cable to as low as possible. If you have a 2 ohm speaker and 2 ohm resistance in your cable then 50% of your amp power is consumed by the cable.

We also Bi-amp and Tri-amp which provides greater clarity in the system. These systems are often operating at full tilt all night in Hotels and clubs.

I will Bi-wire my Jubilee in this way but with normal twin conductor 3 mill speaker wire one cable for negative and one for positive and since they will also be Bi-amped there will be 4 cables to each speaker. This will be necessary as the Amps will not be next to the speakers but about 10 meters away. It is also important to ensure that both Left and Right speaker cables are exactly the same length other wise you will notice that one side is louder than the other.

I use 5 meter Monster Cable as the speaker leads between my Class A amp and my LaScala.

The only part of the copper wire that conducts is the outside as the electrons can move in this area. Therefore a multi strand wire will have less resistance than a solid core of the same diameter.

If you want to experience the difference cable makes use solid core telephone cable for one speaker and something better on the other side and then adjust the balance control to level the volume between the to channels. Then listen to the frequency response. You must set the system to mono. If you can't here the difference then for your hearing it does not matter. Everyones hearing is different depending on many things so what matters is only what you notice not what other people reckon. A good friend of mine can't hear the difference between the speakers in the TV and a reasonable sound system so for him a home theatre system is a total waste of time and money. He never goes to the Cinema either.

No one can say what another person hears unless they are Mr Spock from Start Trek and can do a Vulcan Mind Meld. The other thing to consider is colour and for some people Red might be Blue but how would you know since you learn't to recognise the colour you see and give it an agreed label.

There is no specifically correct answer, everything is personal and if it was not we would all be robots.

Uhhh!..... Run that by me one more time would you.....[]

[mustang guy]

Rodrocket, you are gonna have some wicked LFE in that stairwell. Great project!

[RRFL]

All these experiences and opinions are excellent. I have found each comment invaluable as collectively there are many of my other future questions answered before I have even thought of them.

http://www.gr-research.com/myths.htm

This was very interesting.

At the club I sound mix bands at most of the time, we installed a pair of KPT-684s powered by 1240 watts each with 2 pair of KP-362s power by 450watts each, total 4280 watts back in Dec 2000. The system is Bi-amped with 4 Yamaha P4500s the LF amps bridged, the speaker cables are tri-wired with 3 core multi strand power cable.

On a subsequent job we were installing the same configuration as above but including a pair of KI-215s each driven by 1240watts in between the other 2 as above, so it was tri-amped and tri-wired. That system was also then doubled so the total watts was 13520.

Before we completed the 2nd job we took a pair of KI-215s to the club to compare them to the pair of KPT-684 by setting the speakers together on the stage and just unplugging the speakon plugs and plugging them into the other cabinets without turning anything off just moving the plugs. No one could tell the difference between the 4 18s in the 684s to the 4 15s in the 215s. We even muted the 362s and then slowed the pitch control on the CD down and compared the rattles in the lighting rig to see if that was different. So how do you explain that, the 18s should have walked all over the 15s. The speaker drivers did have identical voice coils as I was advised and the only difference was the cone size and baskets.

Considering the above I agree.[:^)]

I DID break in my spud when I built it. Some dumb @ss wired one of the two drivers wrong and it had zero bass, just a little pansy/bose amount of bass, I thought I'll leave it play low overnight and see if it improves.

It did improve GREATLY when I went back the next day and found what I had done, I had the two drivers pushing against each other, break in I guess, yep that's the story ?

It works MUCH better when wired as designed, who would have thunk it ?

This is an excellent break in method but what do you mean leave it low over night surely pansy/bose are not that loud that you would not be able to sleep when they are at full tilt. I apologise to all the bose owners.[]

This sounds like snake oil. Just like Bi-amping and monster cable.

I think you meant Biwiring which does absolutely nothing. Biamping is a different story.

In our commercial installations we Tri-wire with 25amp multi strand power cable used for house power outlets. We join the 3 conductors together at each end leaving one a bit longer to connect to the speaker and amp. We use one cable for positive and another for negative. This is mainly due to the long cable runs required from the amp rack to the speakers. The aim is to reduce the resistance in the cable to as low as possible. If you have a 2 ohm speaker and 2 ohm resistance in your cable then 50% of your amp power is consumed by the cable.

We also Bi-amp and Tri-amp which provides greater clarity in the system. These systems are often operating at full tilt all night in Hotels and clubs.

I will Bi-wire my Jubilee in this way but with normal twin conductor 3 mill speaker wire one cable for negative and one for positive and since they will also be Bi-amped there will be 4 cables to each speaker. This will be necessary as the Amps will not be next to the speakers but about 10 meters away. It is also important to ensure that both Left and Right speaker cables are exactly the same length other wise you will notice that one side is louder than the other.

I use 5 meter Monster Cable as the speaker leads between my Class A amp and my LaScala.

The only part of the copper wire that conducts is the outside as the electrons can move in this area. Therefore a multi strand wire will have less resistance than a solid core of the same diameter.

If you want to experience the difference cable makes use solid core telephone cable for one speaker and something better on the other side and then adjust the balance control to level the volume between the to channels. Then listen to the frequency response. You must set the system to mono. If you can't here the difference then for your hearing it does not matter. Everyones hearing is different depending on many things so what matters is only what you notice not what other people reckon. A good friend of mine can't hear the difference between the speakers in the TV and a reasonable sound system so for him a home theatre system is a total waste of time and money. He never goes to the Cinema either.

No one can say what another person hears unless they are Mr Spock from Start Trek and can do a Vulcan Mind Meld. The other thing to consider is colour and for some people Red might be Blue but how would you know since you learn't to recognise the colour you see and give it an agreed label.

There is no specifically correct answer, everything is personal and if it was not we would all be robots.

Uhhh!..... Run that by me one more time would you.....

OK then

This sounds like snake oil. Just like Bi-amping and monster cable.

I think you meant Biwiring which does absolutely nothing. Biamping is a different story.

In our commercial installations we Tri-wire with 25amp multi strand power cable used for house power outlets. We join the 3 conductors together at each end leaving one a bit longer to connect to the speaker and amp. We use one cable for positive and another for negative. This is mainly due to the long cable runs required from the amp rack to the speakers. The aim is to reduce the resistance in the cable to as low as possible. If you have a 2 ohm speaker and 2 ohm resistance in your cable then 50% of your amp power is consumed by the cable.

We also Bi-amp and Tri-amp which provides greater clarity in the system. These systems are often operating at full tilt all night in Hotels and clubs.

I will Bi-wire my Jubilee in this way but with normal twin conductor 3 mill speaker wire one cable for negative and one for positive and since they will also be Bi-amped there will be 4 cables to each speaker. This will be necessary as the Amps will not be next to the speakers but about 10 meters away. It is also important to ensure that both Left and Right speaker cables are exactly the same length other wise you will notice that one side is louder than the other.

I use 5 meter Monster Cable as the speaker leads between my Class A amp and my LaScala.

The only part of the copper wire that conducts is the outside as the electrons can move in this area. Therefore a multi strand wire will have less resistance than a solid core of the same diameter.

If you want to experience the difference cable makes use solid core telephone cable for one speaker and something better on the other side and then adjust the balance control to level the volume between the to channels. Then listen to the frequency response. You must set the system to mono. If you can't here the difference then for your hearing it does not matter. Everyones hearing is different depending on many things so what matters is only what you notice not what other people reckon. A good friend of mine can't hear the difference between the speakers in the TV and a reasonable sound system so for him a home theatre system is a total waste of time and money. He never goes to the Cinema either.

No one can say what another person hears unless they are Mr Spock from Start Trek and can do a Vulcan Mind Meld. The other thing to consider is colour and for some people Red might be Blue but how would you know since you learn't to recognise the colour you see and give it an agreed label.

There is no specifically correct answer, everything is personal and if it was not we would all be robots.

Rodrocket, you are gonna have some wicked LFE in that stairwell. Great project!

I have decided to build the Tuba HT LP 72x36x18 and stand it on its end under the stairs against the wall pointing up as this will enable me to take it to other places for testing and comparison purposes. I intend to use it only for LFE in movie mode. In 2 channel mode it will only be the Jubilee/402/K69.

I have found that you can measure everything till the cows come home but the listening test is the clincher in the end.

I ordered the Dayton RSS390-HF-4 500watt from Parts Express yesterday while the AU $ was @ 1.04 against the US. Now I have to decide on a amp to drive it. I want bandwidth to be below 10Hz at full thrust with distortion below 0.01%. So I might have to get something with 1000watts and run it at less than 10% of rated power.

[:S] Can someone explain all this to me?