Whats My Weakest Link?

[greengiant]

Possiblly you guys could help me improve my Klipsch based system.

Ill tell you what im using and hopefully you can point out where I can improve and why.

Thanks

Receiver: Pioneer Elite VSX-24TX (90 wpc, THX Select)

Cd Player: Sony ES CDP-CA7ES

Left and Right Speakers: Klipsch KM6 (KG 5.5's)

Wires: Original Monster Cable with Monster Cable banana plugs soldered on both ends

Interconnect cable: Monster Cable Lightspeed 200 Digital optical cable

I am mostly concerned about my 2 channel audio but the rest of my system includes:

Sony single disc DVD player

Klipsch KV3 center channel

Surrounds: BIC America V504 Venturi Speakers

(Bi-polar)

And a basic Sony 27" Trinitron TV

[Audible Nectar]

If you are looking to improve your 2 channel listening, I would look at your speakers first.

Certainly no disrespect to your current pair, they are very good for what they are. However, there's much better performance available. I would consider something in the Heritage line - think BIG Klipschorn, Belle, LaScala, or Cornwall. Khorn, Belle and LaScala are best for 2 channel - those offer fully horn loaded drivers. Once you get into the horn loaded bass, you'll never look back - it's that addicting. Cornwalls are a good, flexible alternative, too (I have Cornwall II's and I really like them as mains in my HT). You can go used on these - and get HUGE performance for pennies on the dollar vs. new prices - but now the new Heritage is coming out soon if you want factory new models (no Cornwalls, though).

There is no one single change that will alter the sound of your system more than the speakers. If you get big league speakers, you can have a big league system in one shot. This is especially true with Klipsch - they work with a much broader range of amplifiers (and they should work well with your current Pioneer).

Upgrade option II:

If you are thinking of upgrading the HT portion of your system along with some 2 channel improvement as well, a good quality subwoofer would be a good addition to your system. I find that truly good bass reinforcement provides a body to my system in both 2 channel and HT listening. A good sub (or two!!) will add scale and depth to your sound, and your current speakers will perform better too - the main speakers are relieved of the low bass, since the sub will handle that.

The space available in the listening room is certainly an issue with what speaker options are best for you, but I firmly believe that speakers make the system - paired with clean amps to drive them.

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First we Rock, then we Roll!

A Beast is Lurking.........To be unleashed May 2002

*** Alpha Testing Complete ***

This message has been edited by dndphishin on 05-09-2002 at 10:01 PM

[T2K]

Hey there green giant! How's it hangin'!?

EXACTLY what is it that you feel like your 2-channel system is lacking?

Keith

[USparc]

greengiant,

nice receiver,It will definitly be happy with the reference line and set you up for HT to!!

You have to get a DVD player to.(a pioneer of course)

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Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS

DVD: Pioneer DV-525

Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection

Front: RF-3 tFTP

Rear: RF-3 tFTP

Center: RC-3 tFTP

SubW: KSW-12

[dougdrake]

Keith's question is right on target. But I'll pile on here, too, with the suggestion of changing speakers to one of the classic 3-way designs. The ones mentioned above are all great, and I'd also toss the Chorus into the lineup. It's a little less expensive than the other options ($600-800 used), and a little smaller footprint if space is a concern.

Doug

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My System

[Colin]

Need a sub-woofer!

I have a Pioneer reference amp, so I know their solid State (SS) equipment can be as good as any other top of the line name brand equipment. I have not heard your speakers, but I have heard good things about here. I doubt that they are the weak link in your system, if they are properly set-up, away from the front and side walls. Speakers are the voice for the stereo system, but they are also the only bargain in audio - you get the most bang for your buck with speakers - so if you like their sound, they are not often the weak link.

Instead, I think the glaring omission is the lack of a sub-woofer. You can not have great HT or music system without a powerful sub-woofer.. or two.

Lets get one thing straight here. Most recorded music is from about 500 Hz to about 12 kHz; a fact that Bose uses to their great advantage. A lot of what the public thinks is low bass is down around 100 Hz. This is actually the mid to upper range of the bass area. In fact, many instruments play as low as 30 or 40 Hz, and this is the area where some music and many action movies put their special effects. Unfortunately, it is the area where most moderately priced full range speakers start to give out. This is also the area where tweaking audiophiles like to listen for a speakers capabilities.

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Colin's Music System Cornwall 1s & Klipsch subs; lights out & tubes glowing!

[USparc]

Good remark Colin.

[dougdrake]

I couldn't resist, given this thread's title -

http://216.37.9.58/ubb/uploads/dougdrake/goodbye3.mp3

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My System

This message has been edited by dougdrake on 05-10-2002 at 02:06 PM

[ShapeShifter]

Don't overlook the Forte,Forte II's or Quartets! They're the younger siblings of Chorus and Chorus II's.

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KLIPSCH IS MUSICf>

My Systems f>s>c>

This message has been edited by ShapeShifter on 05-10-2002 at 03:44 PM

[greengiant]

Thanks for the input so far folks. I never thought that the sub could be as important as you guys say. Ive heard some people believe that a person should get the most expensive sub they can afford. So these are my thoughts at the current time. I have a high quality 12" Kicker Solobaric sub in my car in a non-cube shaped box that I have built. The whole thing is extremely solid. I built my own enclosure as a trapezoid, since I heard that a cube is the worst possible acoustical shape for a speaker to be in. The box is sealed and is only .88 cubic feet, creating tight, punchy, not boomy bass. I dont know of its range or if it goes all the way to 20hz. Ive seen the majority of home subwoofers are ported enclosures that put out a lot of volume with a relatively small amplifier. What I am thinking of doing is using my car subwoofer in my home with a separate two-channel amp bridged down, or a good powerful monobloc amp. The problem that I see with this set up is that I will need about 350 watts rms, which could be pricey, and i wont have subwoofer controls on the amp. This doesnt seem to be a huge problem to me because I can control the LFE output on my receiver. What do you guys think of this idea? Reasonable, or just go with a good quality home theater sub?

[Shock-Late]

Well, the idea of a subwoofer has some merit, but you should definitely hear a pair of Heritage-line speakers before doing anything else. You may well fall in love...

Anyway, i'm not sure using your car sub would be a great idea; car subwoofers often rely on the small room they're in (the car) to boost the low bass; but put it in a living room and it may well lack bass extension. Of course then you could build a bigger enclosure for it, allowing it to reach deeper. Or maybe you own one of those woofers that go low even in a very small box...

Some manufacturers make sub-amps, complete with crossover and level controls.

I personnaly think, also, that a HT receiver is never as good for music as a good dedicated hi-fi amplifier....at least at less-than-stratospheric prices.

huh...I'm not sure this helps...

but wathever you decide, try before buying!!!

have fun!

Frans

[jazman]

greengiant,

All of the suggestions are worth considering, but I would suggest taking an additional step back to ask yourself several questions to obtain a better perspective. After answering the questions, forge a plan to reach the goal.

1.How committed are you($$$) to pursue an improved 2 channel "music" system?

2.What are your musical taste?

3.What will be your audio source(s), CD(digital), or LPs(analog vinyl)?

Depending on your answers to the above questions, your speakers would probably be the last item, as opposed to the first, in the chain to be replaced. I don't think there is a one shot cure. Generally speaking, the hardware selection for 2 channel music vs HT will not be the same for optimum performance. Amplification and source hardware will probably make the most difference in the overall quality of sound produced by the "total system". Once the front end pieces are up to snuff, the speaker selection will be the icing on the cake. Last, my personal preference is not to use a sub woofer with 2 channel "music" systems. I'd rather select speakers that best reflect(reproduce) the live performance environment for my ears. There are many who will diagree with not using a sub woofer in a 2 channel system, but that's another decision you will need to make.

So my bottom line is to suggest you take a more "whole-istic" approach as opposed to a "weak link" approach for your 2 channel music system. It will probably take longer to complete, but you'll be more satisfied with the result.

Klipsch out.

2 Channel system #1

1974 Belle Klipsch

Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondogs

Cary SLP90L Preamplifier

Asusa modified PP-1 Phono preamplifier

Rega 3 turntable, Rega 300 tonearm; Grado cartridge

Rega Planet CD player

h

[greengiant]

I wasnt planning on replacing the whole system, although it had crossed my mind. I do want good punch with my bass, for some of my heavier music and the home theater aspect. Im going to have to get in touch with my subs manufacturer to find out if it will work in a home. Im still looking for input so please keep the comments coming.