Beechnut Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 I've buckled down and stopped buying other toys and am a lil over halfway to purchasing my first sub. Bout $950 shipped. I've "settled" on the empire instead of the SVS PB13-Ultra do to cost. No dedicated room for a couple years so 2 subs is outta the question. If you've heard one or own one, I'd love to hear your experiences and comparisons. Odd thing is once the setup is complete, it'll be the second least expensive speaker in the system....next to RS-62ii's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydrama Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I don't have an epik but is the sub I want no doubt. Would love an empire but would probably be overkill for my space so I'm leaning towards a legend. They are already a great value but I keep hoping a like new used one will pop up somewhere but they are nowhere to be found. If i get my dedicated space built I will definitely be going with a dual empire setup tho. If you get one let me know how it works out. I've never read where someone was disappointed with one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenM Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I've buckled down and stopped buying other toys and am a lil over halfway to purchasing my first sub. Bout $950 shipped. I've "settled" on the empire instead of the SVS PB13-Ultra do to cost. No dedicated room for a couple years so 2 subs is outta the question. FWIW, there is a thread over at AVS where Josh Ricci ran a set of comprehensive measurements on the Empire. This data is directly comparable to the work he's doing over at Audioholics now which includes the PB13-Ultra. Suffice it to say, while the Empire has gobs of output from 40Hz on up, it is not in the same ballpark as the Ultra by the time you get to 20Hz; in fact, even the PB12-NSD offers greater output at 20Hz than the Empire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 From the research I've done the Epik sub cabinets are too small to allow them to have decent output down low. I'd look into something from Hsu or Elemental Designs, they offer several subs in price ranges lower than many of SVS's subs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenM Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 The PB13's little brother, the PB12-Plus should definitely be on the table as well IMO. For $650 less, you're giving up some output (per Audioholics reckoning since the latest update, it's about a 3dB output difference between the two from 20Hz on up), but you're still geting an extremely powerful subwoofer with excellent fit and finish, multiple configuration options, and top tier support. It's not "cheap", but SVS subs are worth every penny in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydrama Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 This is great info guys and there is no denying the facts but if you read the OPs original post he said he's settled on the Empire bc of it's price nothing else. At $799 it's a great value for what you get and it's $1200 cheaper than the PB13 and $550 cheaper than the PB12. The PB13 and PB12 may both be better below 20hz but not better enough to justify the price. If money wasn't an object sure but for most people performance for your dollar is most important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechnut Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 Now where are all the Epik owners? Called Eric (at SVS) the other day to have him pitch their product to me. I think I am just getting impatient. I thought there were a few Epik owners around here that really loved their subs. He's not just a salesman but one of their designers as well. I could have the empire very soon. Maybe I just needed to be talked down so I don't settle. Not listening to my own advice. If I get the Empire, I might be left wondering what if. If I get the 12 or the Ultra, I'm sure I'll be quite satisfied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechnut Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 Read this the other day too: http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/svs-pb13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenM Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 The PB13 and PB12 may both be better below 20hz but not better enough to justify the price. No offense, but how did you come to that conclusion? At 20Hz, the PB13 can push 110.6dB @ 2 meters, RMS with 5.08% THD+N. Under the same conditions, the Empire can do 102.2dB with 19.32% THD. IOW, even if you stacked a pair of Empires, you STILL could not match the output capability of the PB13, AND the output would be much higher in distortion. At 32Hz, the PB13 still holds a 6dB advantage while maintaining half the distortion. I'd say based on performance alone, the PB13 can easily justify its price. Of course if price is the overriding factor, it may be worth considering that even the less costly PB12-NSD can push 104.3dB @ 20Hz, 2 meters, RMS under CEA 2010 testing with 10.4% THD, delivering more output with much less distortion than the Empire here; at 32Hz, the Empire does deliver more output than the NSD, at 108.4dB vs 109.7dB; however, it should be noted that the NSD delivers this with 6.3% THD versus the Empire's 13% THD. Where the Empire shines is in the upper ranges: at 63Hz, the NSD delivers 109.3dB with 3.5% THD; the Empire can deliver 119.2dB with 3.1% THD. Hopefully this clarifies things a bit for the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechnut Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 It helps. And talking to Eric the other day was simple and beneficial. Very nice not having to waid through a company to answer a few question. And it was nice to just BS about the hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockOn4Klipsch Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Let us know how the empire works out for you. I can not offer a direct comparison, but if you are like the rest of us, which it sounds like you are, settling and wondering "What if" will in the long run cost you more money. I have a pb13 ultra and a pb 12 plus/2 and the ultra wins hands down in sound quality and output. I know there are "better" subs out there, but the price difference is worth it in the long run. I do NOT have the new sledge amp so I can not offer any opinoins on the difference, between the new and old ultras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 If the performance/price ratio is the foremost criterion, then you can't beat DIY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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