dsnagles Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Just picked up a beautiful pair of Epic cf2 speakers. Will be driven by my McIntosh MC2200 amp. Can anyone recommend a good speaker cable, resonable price that would be a good match for this system? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennie Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Budget? Congratulations on the CF2's! [<)] RUSS! A interconnect question!! [] Dennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsnagles Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 My budget is around $150 - $200 per pair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Save your money. Buy some good 12 gauge wire from http://www.monoprice.com and it will be more than sufficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toomanyspeakers Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I am using a pair of Monster Z series between a McIntosh MA 6500 and my CF-2's with great results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runninshine Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I hear that 12g low voltage cable works well. Cheap too......check home depot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I've been demo'ing a pair of Grover Huffman's SX cables for the last month or so. I've used them with a pair of Tannoy Windsors with 15" Gold monitors and various amps - Melody 2A3PP, McIntosh 2100 and 5100 and Scott 222c. Before the Grover cables, I was using solid silver wire, a copper DIY 8 gauge and Monster cable. The copper was a bit veiled with muddy bass compared to the silver which was more detailed if a tad bright and etched on the top. The SX was a big step up from the other cables in resolution, detail, spaciousness and frequency extension. I had recently gotten the 222c refurbished and upgraded by Terry DeWick and while it sounded much better than before, I still felt it had that vintage sound - a little dull and muted compared to modern amps with a slight loss of bottom end and a thin soundstage. The SX cables came into their own with this amp and the sound was a revelation - bold, detailed without the slightest veil and the bottom end was surprisingly good. The overall presentation was full, smooth and nuanced. After a few days with these cables, I had to rethink my impressions of the Scott and as well as my general bias against vintage equipment. I have a pr of CF-2's and CF-3's and in my experience, they would benefit from decent cables (editorial - don't let the "engineers" dissuade you, their math is based on science and Science has proven nothing. By all means, get some zip cord and compare for yourself. If you can't hear the difference, then consider yourself lucky and move onto the next challenge). The 2 cables I would suggest in your budget are either Grover's SX (@$30/ft) or AlphaCore's MI-2 at about the same $/foot. The SX is more musical while the MI-2 is more analytical in its presentation - choose according to taste. I'm sure there are plenty of members here who have experience with other cables that can chime in but that should give you a place to start. Have fun and good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Good gauge, high strand count, etc. (from the physics standpoint...) I do NOT want to start the "speaker wire war" again (although we are overdue for another round.... LOL!!!!), but before any selection is made, one should consider: http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm Russell was the chief engineer for McIntosh, so I kinda' think his observations should be, at the least, a point of consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (editorial - don't let the "engineers" dissuade you, their math is based on science and Science has proven nothing. By all means, get some zip cord and compare for yourself. If you can't hear the difference, then consider yourself lucky and move onto the next challenge). Or, if you can't hear the difference, you will be like the vast majority of the population that don't imagine differences where they are none because they want to believe that they are there. I use 12 AWG from monoprice. I think science is right on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Amen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 "Science has proven nothing" LOL!!!! Ok......... Where are my magic crystals?................... [H] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenM Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I think science is right on this. You would, since you're a scientist and obviously biased [A] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I respect and appreciate Mr. Russell's opinion and the first part of his 'white paper' is chock full of useful information that can be used to determine the best wire for an application. Where his argument diverges is when he brings up Mr. Gow's cable test which uses Monster brand cable as the 'exotic' cable. My experience with Monster branded wires over the years suggest that Monster sells little more than glorified lamp cord and it would be difficult for most anyone, myself included, to hear any difference in the cables. Mr. Russell goes on to say that he is aware of more expensive cables but hasn't heard them nor does he have any interest in doing so. That and the general tone of his argument tells me that he entered into it with a very distinct bias - an engineer's bias. Having grown up and surrounded by engineers in my family, I know that process well. They see a problem, reference the data out of a book and pull out their calculators or slide rules to come up with the most practical solution. Its a viable tact but doesn't take into account any factors outside of direct experience and training and tends to accept well-documented assumptions as fact. Mr. Russell has no experience with the wires and cables he dismisses as hyper-marketed fool's gold and yet references the same material that others use to dispel the 'wire is wire' argument. Mr. Russell offers good advise in that what he covers is practical for 90-95% of audio enthusiasts. Many of us are challenged enough just finding the right amp to go with our speakers or the right preamp to match with our amp. Cabling and wires are simply too small a component and offer too little opportunity to improve our systems to bother with the task of switching out and listening to a myriad of wires. If I understand Mr. Russell's logic, I'd say he would put switching wires in the same basket with rolling tubes, as in if one 12AX7 has the same specs as another, there would be no point to switching them regardless of their manufacturer or vintage - there simply isn't any difference to discern. My point is that while the differences may be small, almost indiscernible in some cases, with care, diligence and patience, I can usually hear them. Most of the time, it isn't a "night and day" difference and that term really shouldn't be used for such subtleties and there really isn't a practical experimentation method I can think of but over time - sometimes months, the differences do become apparent. It may not always be a positive difference and sometimes it's frustrating to realize that its been a complete waste of time but for some, the experience is worthwhile and trying to get that little extra enjoyment out of your system keeps this hobby fun and exciting. Whether this is just a phenomenon based on psychoacoustics or perhaps even neurosis, is arguable but that's another can of worms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennie Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I respect and appreciate Mr. Russell's opinion and the first part of his 'white paper' is chock full of useful information that can be used to determine the best wire for an application. Where his argument diverges is when he brings up Mr. Gow's cable test which uses Monster brand cable as the 'exotic' cable. My experience with Monster branded wires over the years suggest that Monster sells little more than glorified lamp cord and it would be difficult for most anyone, myself included, to hear any difference in the cables. Mr. Russell goes on to say that he is aware of more expensive cables but hasn't heard them nor does he have any interest in doing so. That and the general tone of his argument tells me that he entered into it with a very distinct bias - an engineer's bias. Having grown up and surrounded by engineers in my family, I know that process well. They see a problem, reference the data out of a book and pull out their calculators or slide rules to come up with the most practical solution. Its a viable tact but doesn't take into account any factors outside of direct experience and training and tends to accept well-documented assumptions as fact. Mr. Russell has no experience with the wires and cables he dismisses as hyper-marketed fool's gold and yet references the same material that others use to dispel the 'wire is wire' argument. Mr. Russell offers good advise in that what he covers is practical for 90-95% of audio enthusiasts. Many of us are challenged enough just finding the right amp to go with our speakers or the right preamp to match with our amp. Cabling and wires are simply too small a component and offer too little opportunity to improve our systems to bother with the task of switching out and listening to a myriad of wires. If I understand Mr. Russell's logic, I'd say he would put switching wires in the same basket with rolling tubes, as in if one 12AX7 has the same specs as another, there would be no point to switching them regardless of their manufacturer or vintage - there simply isn't any difference to discern. My point is that while the differences may be small, almost indiscernible in some cases, with care, diligence and patience, I can usually hear them. Most of the time, it isn't a "night and day" difference and that term really shouldn't be used for such subtleties and there really isn't a practical experimentation method I can think of but over time - sometimes months, the differences do become apparent. It may not always be a positive difference and sometimes it's frustrating to realize that its been a complete waste of time but for some, the experience is worthwhile and trying to get that little extra enjoyment out of your system keeps this hobby fun and exciting. Whether this is just a phenomenon based on psychoacoustics or perhaps even neurosis, is arguable but that's another can of worms. Well Done! I believe that wire and interconnects make a difference in a system and that systems sound. But as you say, one must want to take the journey! Thanks for your great post, Dennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Still, if I listenned to you, I'd need to spend over $2000 just to connect my mains instead of $20 with monoprice 12 AWG. If it takes months to detect differences that may be almost indiscernible in some cases, I think my money is better spent buying $5000 speakers instead of $3000 speakers and $2000 wires. It's getting close to Jub territory! Apply that logic to a pair of CF2 that are now worth about $300, and the price of of $30/foot wire will very quickly outstrip the value of speakers. He'd be MUCH better off with $880 speakers (La Scala ?) and $20 wire than with $300 speakers and $600 wire (assuming 20 feet at $30/foot). BTW, how is $30/foot wire in his $150-$200 budget? $150 buys him 5 feet of wire, not even enough to get from the speakers' connectors to the floor, much less to his receiver or amplifier... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennie Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Still, if I listenned to you, I'd need to spend over $2000 just to connect my mains instead of $20 with monoprice 12 AWG. If it takes months to detect differences that may be almost indiscernible in some cases, I think my money is better spent buying $5000 speakers instead of $3000 speakers and $2000 wires. It's getting close to Jub territory! Apply that logic to a pair of CF2 that are now worth about $300, and the price of of $30/foot wire will very quickly outstrip the value of speakers. He'd be MUCH better off with $880 speakers (La Scala ?) and $20 wire than with $300 speakers and $600 wire (assuming 20 feet at $30/foot). BTW, how is $30/foot wire in his $150-$200 budget? $150 buys him 5 feet of wire, not even enough to get from the speakers' connectors to the floor, much less to his receiver or amplifier... No, because it sounds like you wouldn't take that journey. So, it would cost you nothing. Your opinion is noted! Thanks! Dennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Read my second paragraph where I apply the logic to the OP's $300 CF2... It would cost him more than his speakers are worth. Your opinion is also noted! Thanks! At least mine had some logic behind it! [6] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennie Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 My budget is around $150 - $200 per pair Read my second paragraph where I apply the logic to the OP's $300 CF2... It would cost him more than his speakers are worth. Your opinion is also noted! Thanks! At least mine had some logic behind it! Well, it looks like he's prepared to spend close to that. I guess he's okay with it. It seems Peter, there is more than logic behind your post. Have at it! Dennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 If you read the last part of my post, you'll notice that $150 gets the OP 5 feet of $30/foot wire. So he is, in fact, prepared to spend about half the value of his speakers, but not not double the value as implied by $30/foot wire. Why are you making so much out of my intervention anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennie Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 If you read the last part of my post, you'll notice that $150 gets the OP 5 feet of $30/foot wire. So he is, in fact, prepared to spend about half the value of his speakers, but not not double the value as implied by $30/foot wire. Why are you making so much out of my intervention anyway? That, is a great question. I don't know, sorry! Dennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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