New project: NO budget Media Server!!!

[theplummer]

Well, Snow is flying and nothing really to do, so I've got the idea to screw around and CREATE a media server on the ultra cheap (READ Clearly: Spare parts ONLY). I'm not interested in buying anything unless absolutely necessary, and then will venture into the used market first. I'm looking for recommendations on which way to head with this project.

Here's what I'm currently using:

Home Theater (living Room):

Chorus mains, Academy Center, Forte rears.

Sunfire Theater Grand II , Sunfire signature Cinema Grand Amp

Old Sony 5 disc DVD Carousel

1999 model Sony XBR 36" 4:3 CRT style television W/ digital converter box

Wii Game station WiFi for NETFLIX and gaming

Office Computer:

ADCOM GTP-550 Pre/tuner ADCOM GFA6000 Amp

Nakamichi CR-1A Cassette player (rarely used)

Pioneer 6 Disc CD changer

Yamaha 5+1 CD changer (currently needing repair, have parts to fix just not motivated)

Heresy II's for mains, Heresy's for rears, KV-1 center, SW10-II sub

Dell Diminsion 8300 from 2003, With Pentium 4 dual core: 4CPU 2.8 GHz 1GB ram Card + 2- 128 Mb cards

300GB internal hard drive, 300GB external hard drive (bought for backups, but too stupid to make it work correctly)

NVIDIA GeForce FX5200 Video card, this thing has two moniter outs, and has separate dual screen capabilities, I have two moniters currently (drag and drop to the other screen makes it convenient.

Creative Audigy Audio Processor and card (analog out doesn't work correctly), but does have digital out SPDIF (not used right now because ADCOM GTP-550 doesn't have Digital in Capability.

Turtle Beach Micro II USB analog & Digital Audio Adapter (DAC)

1-DVD Reader

1-DVD writer

Wireless mouse and keyboard USB hub

2- old style pin connector mouse and keyboards

Linksys 54G Wireless Router/ Tomato Operating system (don't know much about Tomato, it came installed when I bought the Router Used)

Proposed Media Server:

I have a Dell 8100 Pentium 4 single core 1500MHz, 2- 64Gb Ram cards.

Internal Wifi card (I removed it from the 8300 already and installed it into the 8100, as the 8300 is hardwired to the Router)

Single Floppy 3.5"

Single CD reader

80 Gb hard drive

NVIDIA GeForce2 MX with S-video TV out 32MB

Creative Audio PCI soundcard with analog stereo out.

Here's what I am wanting to do: I am willing to scavage parts out of my Office computer, as long as it doesn't compromise the current configuration, to make the best possible media server out of the older 8100 computer that I have.

Example:

Since I'm using the Turtle Beach USB DAC and not using the Creative Soundblaster Card, and I have digital in on the Sunfire Theater Grand II, I believe I could swap cards in the two computers without affecting my Office computer. Or am I missing something?

I also wonder if it would compromise my office computer if I removed the two 128Mb RAM cards and installed them into the 8100, leaving me with 1 GB RAM in the office computer and bumping up the Media server from 128MB RAM to 376MB RAM. Would this compromise the Office computer's speed enough that I'd notice it, and would the increased RAM in the Media server benifit, since it's only got a 1500MHz single core processor, or is this computer so slow it wouldn't matter. Or, is it even necessary considering the fact that it will only be using one program at a time (I.E. windows media player, Itunes, Internet explorer). It won't have multiple programs running at any one time.

Also, would it be better to remove the 80 Gig hard drive and install the 300 Gig hard drive into the media server computer, or leave it as an external hard drive (USB connector only, no firewire), Or leave the external hard drive connected to the Office computer and use the Wireless router to share files off the Office computer, and use it that way.

I'm not really up on the technology, but I'm competent at installing parts into a computer and making it work. Just not wanting to screw up my office computer (business files) to make a toy.

RECOMMENDATIONS PLEASE.

[Rudy81]

Your current pc processor and ram should be sufficient to run windoze and your server software. The biggest limitation I see right now is your small hard drive. Depending on what type of codec you are going to use for the music files it may be too small. In my case, I use FLAC encoding for bit perfect music files. They are huge and I have two 500GB hard drives to store my files, windoze, and other acoustic software, like REW.

The other issue is the audio card. You will need to determine how you are going to 'send' your files to your pre/pro. If you are going to use windoze media player to send .mp3 files, your current setup will work, but your sound quality will not match CD quality.

If you want the best possible sound source, that is match your CD sound quality, you are going to need to research how to rip, store and play bit perfect files. Not a tough thing, but there is a small learning curve.

Windows XP has some built-in problems with its kernel that cause problems when trying to play bit perfect music. I use Windows XP and it can be done, but you need to learn how to set it up properly. You will need to use something called kernel streaming or ASIO to properly 'transport' bit perfect sound. Depending on what you select, it will dictate which software you can use.

I will try to post some links that might be helpful. In the meantime, you can run a search for bit perfect music and HTPC for lots of information.

[theplummer]

Thanks for the input, I have a few followup questions:

Your current pc processor and ram should be sufficient to run windoze and your server software. The biggest limitation I see right now is your small hard drive. Depending on what type of codec you are going to use for the music files it may be too small. In my case, I use FLAC encoding for bit perfect music files. They are huge and I have two 500GB hard drives to store my files, windoze, and other acoustic software, like REW. Would it be better then, to leave the smaller hard drive in the 8100 (server) and use the larger office computer with 300GB hard drive and 300GB external hard drive, and link the two together via WiFi, as then all music would be on one computer, organized in the same way for familiarity, or replace the 80GB hard drive, by disassembling the external drive to install it in the server and store the info on the server itself? Or, leave the external hard drive intact, store all the media on it, and just transfer it from one computer to another, whichever I am wanting to use?

The other issue is the audio card. You will need to determine how you are going to 'send' your files to your pre/pro. If you are going to use windoze media player to send .mp3 files, your current setup will work, but your sound quality will not match CD quality. The current audio card in the server has a green Audio out mini jack, I have a minijack to RCA converter, so that's doable? Or would it be better to remove the Soundblaster card from the office computer, as it has a Digital out that I can plug directly into my Sunfire TGII, without compromising the Office computer?

If you want the best possible sound source, that is match your CD sound quality, you are going to need to research how to rip, store and play bit perfect files. Not a tough thing, but there is a small learning curve.

Windows XP has some built-in problems with its kernel that cause problems when trying to play bit perfect music. I use Windows XP and it can be done, but you need to learn how to set it up properly. You will need to use something called kernel streaming or ASIO to properly 'transport' bit perfect sound. Depending on what you select, it will dictate which software you can use.Thanks for the advice here, would I be able to eliminate this problem by using Itunes and Quicktime instead, or is the kernel problem accross the board?

I will try to post some links that might be helpful. In the meantime, you can run a search for bit perfect music and HTPC for lots of information.

Again, thanks for the input so far.

[Thaddeus Smith]

itunes does not support FLAC files. :/

[theplummer]

itunes does not support FLAC files. :/

I really do not know much about what you speak of so I searched what a FLAC files was in Google and this popped up, apparantely someone has written a program to convert them, don't know anything else about it though. http://www.simplehelp.net/2008/06/12/how-to-play-flac-files-in-itunes/

[Rudy81]

You can start here:

http://www.hi-fi-insight.com/bit-perfect-audio.html

There are thousands of articles on the subject and plenty of software and hardware to achieve what you want. I too used old pc parts to build mine. I use the Chaintec AV710 audio card which was $24. They are no longer available new, but can be found on eBay now and again. They have a chip you can use for bit perfect streaming. There are, of course, other cards that can do that, but they can be expensive.

[Rudy81]

itunes does not support FLAC files. :/

Tha'ts ok, I hate iTunes. Way too much control over what you can and can't do with files.

[Rudy81]

Just for reference, I use the following pieces of software:

J. River Media Center as a media player. http://www.jriver.com/

dbPoweramp (pro version) to rip, convert and store my CD music files. http://www.dbpoweramp.com/

Chaintech AV710 Audio card to send kernel stream to my pre/pro. http://www.sudhian.com/content/?p=1340

Basically, that's it. As I said, two 500GB drives contain all my CD's ripped in FLAC. I love being able to select any music track instantly from the comfort of my sweet spot seat in the media room. The hardest part will be setting up your system to work properly and then the very long, tedious job of ripping your music.

[Rudy81]

In answer to your questions, I would suggest adding a large hard drive to your pc to store all the music, separate than the operating system. This way, if the system ever crashes and burns, your music files will not go down with the drive. Once you spend a week ripping all your music, you will see that it is not something you ever want to do again.

As far as the audio card, it depends. If you want bit perfect audio, only certain cards can give you that result and it is chip dependant. You will have to research that one.

If you are set on using iTunes, you are going to run into some limitations. File type for one. The other issues will come from iTunes propensity to prevent you from ripping music that has copywright protection etc. I have not used iTunes in years, so am not familiar with what it can and can't do.

I guess the first thing you need to do is decide what file types you are going to use. If you are set on something like .mp3, you will be able use virtually any card and software to run music. If you are happy with the quality, then your job will be much simpler. If you get hooked on trying to perfectly duplicate your CDs for quaility, then you will have to decide on a file type that can duplicate that quality level, and figure out how to 'transport' that information to your pre/pro.

This is the learning curve I was talking about.

[guitarman]

Windows Media Player or Media Center and Shark007 codec pack is all you need to play anything and everything.

[theplummer]

A little update.

I managed to get the computer running on the HT this evening, Internet WiFi works great. I did not change any hard drive, or Ram memory yet, as I wanted to see if the internet speed was acceptable as is. Sadly, it is not, video's freeze every few seconds or so, even if I let the video download for a while before starting it. Also, Ripping speed of Cd's (in WAV format) on that old machine is torturously slow. I guess I could steal the two 128Mg Ram Cards out of the Office computer and triple the Ram in the media server, while still leaving 1gig Ram for the office. Shouldn't that be acceptable for the office and help some of the issues on the media server?

Also, the NVIDIA GeForce2 MX video card has a S-video output on it, and the advertisements from NVIDIA claim that it has dual moniter capabilities, If your graphics card can handle it. (I have this on the office computer and love it, with a NVIDIA GeForce 5200). Apparantely the Media computer must not have a graphics card capable of handling dual screens as only either the moniter works or the TV, not both. This wouldn't be so bad, accept the resolution on my old Sony XBR 36" TV is not high enough (with S-video) to be able to read the text on the screen. Text is just a blur. Also, the graphics card has re-sized the screen down to about 32" and I cannot find an adjustment to allow the screen to fit the TV. I'd like to maintain a smaller moniter off to the side of the Sony TV to make adjustments on the fly, or reading emails while watching Netflix on the larger screen. I can remember, years ago, I had the same issue with the Office computer being hooked to the Sony and had the same clarity with text issues, so I may be stuck with needing a smaller moniter to do the internet surfing anyway. I would really like to use this feature, as the internet Opera operating system for the Wii just plain sucks, even with a keyboard.

Any thoughts on what to look for in the used market for a different Graphics card and possibly a different video card, maybe one that supports component video, instead of the marginal S-video quality. I don't have anything capable of HDMI at this time.

I still haven't decided on which route to go with on the hard drive issue. I do like the idea of leaving the 80GB one in the media server and just use that for the windows operating system, and maybe either using the Office computer as the actual media storage and just set the files to sharing and have the wifi transfer them to the media server, or is there a loss of quality there? there shouldn't be, as it's just a bunch of ones and zero's.

[cornfedksboy]

If you are set on using iTunes, you are going to run into some limitations. File type for one. The other issues will come from iTunes propensity to prevent you from ripping music that has copywright protection etc. I have not used iTunes in years, so am not familiar with what it can and can't do.

I'm currently using iTunes for it's simplicity. You will need to keep all of your files in the Apple format (as they come from iTunes). I've ripped over 100 CDs and not come across one that wasn't bit perfect or that wouldn't download due to copywright. A couple of nice things about iTunes is that it auto-downloads the album art and auto arranges by song, artist, genre, album and the bit perfect copies are smaller than WAV and FLAC files (but still really big compared to lossy).

Edit: Misspoke. The lossless compressed are smaller. Lossless are the same as your CD.

[Dingman]

I'm a experienced technician and not afraid of working with a system in detail to get it to run the way I want.

I
worked for more than a few months trying to get itunes to perform even
normal media duties and it failed. It simply is not acceptable (IMO). I
could list the problems but to address the point about auto-download of
album art. LOL, just try it and see how well it does. Then install a
itunes on another machine and point it to your library in which you've
spent days manually adding artwork and correcting track names. Guess
what, the new itunes will NOT read that data! No artwork will transfer.
Gah, I could go on and on.

At this point, I'm still exploring
alternatives and haven't found what I'd call the best for my use, and so
can't recommend a replacement.

Jriver is next on my list.

I might come back and add more about media setup, but the link above is quite good, I couldn't add much to it.

[Youthman]

Corn Plummer, from my limited understanding, using iTunes doesn't allow for a "bit perfect" transfer. I'm not as familiar with audio as I am graphics but I'll give it a whirl. When you transfer a song from a CD using iTunes or Windows Media Player, there is some compression that takes place (lossy format). I believe "bit perfect" is when there is no loss of data, compression etc. It is exactly the way it is on the original source. iTunes cannot support that.

I've ripped over 100 CDs and not come across
one that wasn't bit perfect or that wouldn't download due to
copywright. A couple of nice things about iTunes is that it
auto-downloads the album art and auto arranges by song, artist, genre,
album and the bit perfect copies are smaller than WAV and FLAC files
(but still really big compared to lossy).

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding the definition of bit perfect, but I do not believe iTunes can perform bit perfect copies. My logic says that if you make a copy of something and the new copy is smaller in file size than the original, something changed (either compression or information was lost).

Same is true in the graphics world. When I take a photo with my Nikon D90, I can set the camera to take shoot in RAW + Jpg. For each photo, it saves a RAW (lossless) image and a JPG (lossy) image. The RAW might be 12MB in file size where the JPG is maybe 6-8MB. With the JPG format, information is discarded to help reduce the file size.

If I am mistaken in my understanding, please correct me. I am open to flogging. LOL

[cornfedksboy]

Youth,

You can Rip CDs in lossless format...bit perfect. You have to select this mode, but only once. Just set it as a preference. When it does this the file size is the same as the CD. The iTunes purchases, are lossless compressed, or lossy...so less than the CD, but very hard (impossible for me) to distinguish in A/B listening. iTunes can and does perform a bit-perfect Rip WITH auto-correct. I spent much time researching this before going with iTunes.

[cornfedksboy]

I worked for more than a few months trying to get itunes to perform even normal media duties and it failed. It simply is not acceptable (IMO). I could list the problems but to address the point about auto-download of album art. LOL, just try it and see how well it does. Then install a itunes on another machine and point it to your library in which you've spent days manually adding artwork and correcting track names. Guess what, the new itunes will NOT read that data! No artwork will transfer. Gah, I could go on and on.

Zero issues (with CDs that can be purchased on iTunes), over 100 lossless audio CDs with auto-correct on four machines. I tried it and it works. The auto-download function was just upgraded with the latest firmware update a couple of months ago. Your statement simply isn't true!!!

[Rudy81]

IIRC, one of the ways to test if you are in fact getting bit perfect throughput is to play a 5.1 DD file. If you are not getting bit perfect throughput, you will just hear a 'hiss' and no music. If your system cannot switch between 48kHz and 44.1kHz play, I don't think you are getting bit perfect signaling to the pre/pro.

It sounds like iTunes has come a long way from when I first tried to work with it.

You can download some AC3 files from here: http://www.kellyindustries.com/sounds.html

[psg]

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding the definition of bit perfect, but I do not believe iTunes can perform bit perfect copies. My logic says that if you make a copy of something and the new copy is smaller in file size than the original, something changed (either compression or information was lost).

Same is true in the graphics world. When I take a photo with my Nikon D90, I can set the camera to take shoot in RAW + Jpg. For each photo, it saves a RAW (lossless) image and a JPG (lossy) image. The RAW might be 12MB in file size where the JPG is maybe 6-8MB. With the JPG format, information is discarded to help reduce the file size.

If I am mistaken in my understanding, please correct me. I am open to flogging. LOL

When you ZIP a file, the compressed file is smaller and no information is lost. FLAC is lossless but compressed in size relative to the same information stored in WAV format. Apple also has a lossless format for iTunes that is also compressed in size.

[theplummer]

I installed the reclock software and set it as the website suggested, but now I get absolutely NO sound from windows media player. I can't find a tutorial and I'm frustrated at this point. Is there something I'm missing?

[Dingman]

Edited out original content to say~

I edited out the original text.

Mileage will still vary!