InventiveAudio.com Posted May 17, 2002 Share Posted May 17, 2002 Hi, I wanted to build sorround sound speakers into my book shelf. A Heresy is too big for the enclosure. I would like to use Klipsch components but the prices are getting insame on EBAY. One (not a pair) Heresy sold for 260.00 the other day. Anyway, Layne Audio advertises replacement drivers for the Heresy and crossovers. I heard good things about the Heresy woofers but not about their horn drivers. I would love to hear from anyone who has gone that route if they were happy with the end results. Layne claims that his drivers are a close match and may even be smoother?? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted May 17, 2002 Share Posted May 17, 2002 A word to the wise here...the heresy works the way it does because of more than its drivers/horns...INTERIOR VOLUME!!!...you better keep that in mind when you try to build the cabinet... ------------------ If you want to send a private message, or have already done so, be aware I have not as yet been able to retrieve them. Send e-maill instead, please...just note Klipsch forum in the heading so it doesn't get deleted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InventiveAudio.com Posted May 17, 2002 Author Share Posted May 17, 2002 I always thought that the compression drivers were sealed and the cabinet has no effect on the horn sound. The size and shape of the horn is what amplifys the sound coming from the hron driver. The K-horn doesn't have a back and its horn drivers are in free air so I don't think you're correct. I want to build a similar design to the Heresy using an 8" woofer in a slightly smaller cabinet than the Heresy. I would love to know if the Layne drivers would help me accomplish this. Obviously the sales guy says YES!! The drivers run around 70.00 each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted May 17, 2002 Share Posted May 17, 2002 Trader I think you mis read what HDBR wrote. You are correct that the horn amplifies the sound from the horn driver. What HDBR is refering to is the Heresys sealed cabinet has the exact cubic feet of space required for the Woofer Driver. You can not put a Heresy Woofer into a smaller sealed cabinet and get the same results. What you need to do is find out from the MFG what cubic feet you need for the 8 inch driver you plan to use and design your sealed or ported cabinet accordingly. The khorn is completely different since its woofer is horn loaded, not a sealed or ported cabinet. JM This message has been edited by j-malotky on 05-17-2002 at 03:23 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted May 17, 2002 Share Posted May 17, 2002 If you're talking about building a cabinet with a non-Heresy woofer in a smaller sized box, and using the Heresy midrange and tweeter horns in that new, smaller box, that's not what HDBRbuilder was talking about. He was saying that if you take the Heresy WOOFER and put it, along with the other components, in a smaller cabinet it won't work. HDBRbuilder, by the way, stands for Heresy Decorator Birch Raw builder. He worked for Klipsch for several years, and build a few hundred thousand Heresy speakers. Do you have experience with horn loaded compression drivers, Klipsch or otherwise, that we can offer some comparisons to? ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Ray's Music System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOUNDJUNKIE Posted May 17, 2002 Share Posted May 17, 2002 OK, let me understand this...8" woofs in smaller cabs(same depth, of course, to accommodate the horn drivers), with mids and tweets that are "equivalent" to Heresy components, purchase for 4 drivers @$70/ea=$240 sans woofers/crossover components/wire/hardware and finished cabs, to build something untested and reproduce the already limited LF extension of the Heresy? Forgive my usual positive attitude, but...I would keep your username bc that's what you'll be doing with these things when and if you get this off the ground. BTW, salespersons will tell you anything when money is involved. Boy, do we really need PWK around now more than ever, wait, let me carry on the tradition...BULLSHIT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted May 17, 2002 Share Posted May 17, 2002 Hey Trader...here is a little hint for ya... How would you like a speaker that has excellent performance for its size and takes up 1/8th the size of a Heresy cabinet? Sound good to ya? I know this may not sound like it works worth a damn, but give it a try: Take the outside dimensions of a flush-front decorator Heresy cabinet: 13 1/4" deep X 15 3/8" wide X 21 1/4" tall. Now divide all these dimensions by 2...build a decorator style flush-front cabinet to these new outside dimensions...ensuring you get good glue seals...use 3/4" plywood. Mount 3/4"x3/4" glue blocks in the back edge of the cabinet 1/2" in all the way around...just like in a heresy....seal the corners where the glue blocks meet with bathtub caulk sealer...and cut a back out of 3/8" thick plywood to screw onto the glue blocks in the cabinet. Now go get yourself a pair of 6" x 9" oval PIONEER DUOCONE car speakers(they are DIRT CHEAP!!). Cut an opening in the front for em to make noise through...you get my drift(I hope!!), mount em inside the box. Run the wires to a regular connector on the back. Voila....now you have some great little surround speakers for a bookshelf!! No kiddin!! We used to build these all the time...made great little speakers for the bathroom, etc. Tested out similar to a Heresy in performance until you got down to bass. The drivers are dirt cheap, too. I must have made twenty pairs of these for employees when I was there...everybody loved em! Of course they ain't horn-loaded and they don't take big power loads...but they sound pretty damned good for their size and they are inexpensive and small!! Put it this way, alot of the old employees still have these in their bathrooms and in small rooms in the house...wonder why? We called em "mini-Heresys"....wanna know how to make "mini-Cornwalls"? LOL! Bye the way...the Heresy woofer has a short-throw design...if it ain't in a sealed enclosure it will destroy itself....you know...as the cone goes forward, it creates a vacuum slowing its momentum, and as it goes back, it increases the air pressure in the cabinet slowing its momentum....just look on this as a shock absorber for the voice coil!! That is how you take a relatively inexpensive short throw voice coil woofer design and get big sound out of it!! If the interior dimensions aren't right, then it is like driving a Cadillac on Yugo shocks! Get my drift? And, the K-horn has a woofer in a sealed enclosure too, just as the Belle and LaScala do.....the Cornwall is the ONLY heritage speaker without a sealed enclosure!! ------------------ If you want to send a private message, or have already done so, be aware I have not as yet been able to retrieve them. Send e-maill instead, please...just note Klipsch forum in the heading so it doesn't get deleted. This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 05-17-2002 at 05:03 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hetmann Posted May 17, 2002 Share Posted May 17, 2002 Okay. I'm game. How do you make a mini-Cornwall? ------------------ Klipschorns and Moondogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted May 17, 2002 Share Posted May 17, 2002 Mini-Cornwall...everything half scale...shelf baffle inside is 3/8" plywood...ports are to same half scale...use Jensen Coax 6x9 oval speaker. Mini Heresy is alot easier to build tho...and the Mini-Cornwall doesn't perform much better. Now, ya wanna know about Bois'd'Arc's Mini K-horns?....the ones that, after all his hard work, sounded like a Heresy? LOL! ------------------ If you want to send a private message, or have already done so, be aware I have not as yet been able to retrieve them. Send e-maill instead, please...just note Klipsch forum in the heading so it doesn't get deleted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOUNDJUNKIE Posted May 17, 2002 Share Posted May 17, 2002 quote: Originally posted by hetmann: Okay. I'm game. How do you make a mini-Cornwall? You have to be the best straight man. OK, here goes...you stack 4 ears on their sides. I ain't shuckin'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted May 17, 2002 Share Posted May 17, 2002 Does it matter if I use 90-day corn or 120-day corn?...cause, if I can use 90 day corn, I can build one a month sooner! ------------------ If you want to send a private message, or have already done so, be aware I have not as yet been able to retrieve them. Send e-maill instead, please...just note Klipsch forum in the heading so it doesn't get deleted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOUNDJUNKIE Posted May 18, 2002 Share Posted May 18, 2002 No, No, No! You can't use the 90 day corn. I understand Klipsch had problems with it as the husks would loosen over timeand the corn had to be replanted, or something like that? No, use the 120 day corn. As you may not have heard by now, anything worth building is worth building right, even if it takes longer and costs a little more. Besides, don't life move a little slower down there, so...what's all the rush? Let's not try to move the Mason-Dixon line further South! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shock-Late Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 Just one idea: considering it would be for surround duties, why not building a speaker with heresy drivers, woofers, keep the internal volume, but change the proportions of the cabinet? you could have for example a "flat" cabinet, with the woofer firing upwards, and only mid and tweeter on the front side; this would save space vertically... (think about some car-speakers you put on the rear shelf...) don't think you'll ever find a smaller woofer that would keep up with the sensitivity of the midrange and tweeter... have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 Another thought...instead of going through all the hassle of trying to design and build a cabinet for inexpensive copies of Klipsch drivers and horns in order to have some surround speakers that fit into a bookcase shelf...just pick up a pair of Klipsch KG2 speakers on e-Bay...alot less expensive than those parts and all that labor...and would work fine as surrounds...the size is what you are looking for too! Another thing...with Heresys going for about 300-450 bucks a pair on eBay, and considering a new pair goes for well over 1000 bucks...those eBay prices are a steal...just look at what those speaker GHOULS who part out a pair of Heresys are asking for the sum total of all the parts they are selling separately...150 or more bucks for a pair of K77M tweeters, 150 bucks or more for the K33 mid drivers, 150 bucks or more for a pair of the mid-horn lenses, 150 bucks or more for a pair of woofers....that all adds up to over 600 bucks MINIMUM for used parts alone...NOT including the cabinets and crossover networks!! Now go price all of those copycat parts you are looking at for a pair of whatever it is you intend to call your speakers when built...it will exceed 450 bucks for all the parts alone!! You are better off buying a pair of Heresys on e-bay!!...at least you will still have the original cabinets to put those parts back into when the time comes!!! Pretty simple lesson in economics, ain't it? ------------------ If you want to send a private message, or have already done so, be aware I have not as yet been able to retrieve them. Send e-maill instead, please...just note Klipsch forum in the heading so it doesn't get deleted. This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 05-21-2002 at 12:15 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InventiveAudio.com Posted May 21, 2002 Author Share Posted May 21, 2002 I ended up buying 3 sets of Heresy speakers on Ebay. One pair was from Hawaii. I was just curious if anyone had played with the horn compression drivers that Parts express sells. Today I sold my c-5 center channel and replaced it with one of my Heresys for a center. I'm a happy man. For my main system I have Cornalls for mains, a heresy for a center and heresys for sorround speakers. I think I have a lot of bang for the buck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOC_op Posted May 24, 2002 Share Posted May 24, 2002 quote: Originally posted by trader: I would like to use Klipsch components but the prices are getting insame on EBAY. One (not a pair) Heresy sold for 260.00 the other day. I was the winning bidder on that auction. I know I overpaid for my "new" speaker. But, I've been wanting a single Heresy to replace my KLF-C7 as a center in my home theater setup for a couple of months now. (I've never been happy with the match of the KLF-C7 and my 84 Heresy's.) This auction was the first time I'd come across a single Heresy anywhere I'd looked. I really wish that I could have found one by driving by somebody's trash the way one of the other members of this board did a month, or so, ago. Tragically, my luck just isn't that good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted May 24, 2002 Share Posted May 24, 2002 In the big scheme of things, $260 for a well matched center channel speaker is not very much. Heck, it's less than a new C7! Nice setup. Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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