mobile homeless Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 Ye olde Klipsch Forum... Two Channel at that. Well, it's been awhile since I wandered around these parts. Have talked to a few of you over the last months. Good to see tubes are alive and well; indeed, even vinyl seems to have really come through for a few of those daring to venture to The Other Side, quite possibly to never return... Even though I have not been too active within all things Klipsch (I did wander in the day that PWK died), there has been much going on at this end involving music and tubes. All sorts of gear have passed through including those in the above graphic. Tim Babb was nice enough to send his ASL Tube Headphone amplifier along with his Sennheiser HD-600 phones (see above) for a going over and tube trial. I listened to them for a few weeks and put my reactions and comments down on a page along with some shots. Perhaps, I'll get it finished and throw the link here. Indeed, the trial surprised me a bit even as the results were not exactly what I expected. Chris Robinson's AES Super Amp (see above pic), an amp that was discussed quite a bit in the past and recommended by me, finally arrived for a long audition. If you recall, this is the amp that Chris felt was bettered by his EICO EL-84 offering at a mere fraction of the price. I did not argue too much with the results as I am quite familiar with the little EICO as you all know. The damn EICO has been the bain of my existance at times but through it all has always remained a certain benchmark in the vintage amp camp, at least from this neck of the woods. The ONLY amps that get more airplay in this household are my 2A3 SET monoblocks, amps that with tubes are close to 25 times the price of the lowly HF-81. I have to admit, the AES Super Amp is a fine sounding amp wired in Triode mode. Still, for a variety of reasons, this amp just does not have the soul nor involving nature of the little EICO. The Super Amp does sound like a more expensive amp per say, but these HI-FI trappings, while impressive upon first listen, do not stand up quite as well with long term use. Still, the amp can attract some serious attention within this realm and I found it turning my head a few times with the right material. Dont get me wrong, I think the Super Amp can be a first rate anchor to a great system. It has great soundstaging and imaging capability with good resolution. Yet in the end, whether with the KT-88 or the Svetlana EL-34, I found it a tough amp to place. At 15w triode wired, it competes directly with the vintage HF-81, and is a good deal more powerful, measurements wise, than my 2A3 Moondogs. Yet, when push comes to shove, the Moondogs have more grunt and low end control, and are far more sublime sounding. Neither the EICO or the 2A3 SET are as "in your face" as the Super Amp. The difference between SET with directly heated triodes and tube rectification can best be described as illuminating the music from within as the palpability and realness of the presentation takes on this more organic nature that is hard to decribe to those not familiar. Using this kind of descriptive language is the only way I know how to depict this sound difference. Still, if you leave ye olde Super Amp hooked up for awhile, you can forget what you are missing and enjoy this piece. I think many tube patrons would be VERY happy with the Super Amp. It just suffers a bit once you have seen the other side. Now there are upgrades and options that can be taken and I believe you might get an incremental increase in musicality and smoothness depending on choices. Personally, I think the Super Amp might be well served with Jensen or Audio Note Copper Foil Oil coupling caps as an option. Interestingly enough, the only tube amps I have really enjoyed on the vintage Klipsch Cornwalls other than directly heated triodes have been EL-84 based units. Ironic considering my favorite tube used to be the EL-34. There just seems to be a certain symetry here. One of the main ideas I have talked about in the past is the use of tube rectification in the power supply. I am now almost positive in my realization that I have only REALLY loved amps with tube regulation in place of the more ubiquitous solid state. That is not to say that solid state cannot be done well. I just think there is a certain relaxed ease to amps with tube rectification. I own several amps with solid state rectification and none of them totally do it for me. There is an edge to the sound that, though subtle, still arrives like an unannounced guest. I found the KT-88 tubes to strike a good balance with this amp in triode mode. Normally I seem to prefer the EL-34 over the KT-88 but after breaking in, the Valve Art KT-88's were not that bad, and this isnt even a particularly lauded version as the Svetlanas get more praise. All that blather being said, Chris Robinson's AE-25 Super Amp is now up at AudiogoN with both sets of outputs (4 VA KT-88 and Svetlana EL-34) along with the NOS Mullard ECC88 (2 x 6922) and the RCA 6CG7(2). The Ad is a bit over the top with too many pictures and more info than you need but things got out of hand at 3am... For those that wrote me wondering about the Consonance Tube Kits, I still have not heard them. They now have a 2A3 PP Ultralinear Kit called the Joplin that looks interesting (Rumor has it that they might opt for a tube rectifiction version). Also, the Billie 300B SET Monoblocks can now be purchased as a 2A3 Kit as well ( http://www.diycable.com/tube_amp_products.htm ). kh ------------------ Phono Linn LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 Hello Kelly, nice to have you back on the forum. Somehow I missed your tube experience, so let's hope there'll be more in the future. Wolfram ------------------ System: 1973 Khorns with ALK crossovers REL Stadium II sub Cayin 743 D integrated tube amp (utilizing 300B tubes) McIntosh MR 77 McIntosh MCD 7007 Thorens 520S SME 3012-R Ortofon SPU Classic GM E Cyrus aEQ 7 phono stage with PSX-R power supply Yamaha CDR-HD 1000 CD Recorder Alternative amps: McIntosh MC 2105 McIntosh C29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 So nice to see you back Kelly -- we have really missed your contributions and good company. I have listed my Super Amp a couple of times on AudiogoN, and just last night removed an add for it. Looks like I'm going to be a daddy again, and was thinking I could sell the amp, get another tubey, and put some cash back in my pocket to boot. The problem is, everytime I turn that thing on, I get such a rush. That AE-25 is the single most intelligent audio purchase I have ever made. The fact is, I'm smart enough to know that if I sold it -- I would just be plain sick. I can't really say I would consider the Super Amp exessively forward, especially with most of my previous listening being done with solid state. I did do a run for about a year with the Anthem EL-34 based amp, and it does seem to be a little more forward compared to that. However, at the same time, The Super Amp has a crispness, transparency, and openess that was completely absent from the Anthem. It may be that since I have it paired up with the RF7's instead 'real' horns -- there is no sense of undue forwardness. As a matter of fact, I believe the Super Amp and RF7's to be a marriage made in Heaven. I wish I had the money to buy Chris' Super Amp. I would love to biamp those suckers. OTOH -- There is no real reason to. I recently purchased the SVS 20-39 CS+ subwoofer , accompanying Samson pro amp, and HSU electronic crossover . The crossover is outstanding. I purchased it with the 51Hz modules and I feed the full range signal through the crossover. Certainly not the purist approach and I was hesitant to do it, but the combination ended up working flawlessly with the AE-25. If there is any degradation to the signal from the crossover, I do not detect it. I can't say enough good things about this crossover -- it is truly outstanding. At any rate -- It is simply phenomenal what that 15 watts sounds like. Godsmack anyone ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25f>s>SuperAmpf>s> - Sonic Frontiers Line 1 - Sony DVP-S9000ES - Klipsch RF7's SVS 20-39 CS Plus - Samson S1000 - HSU Research elec. crossover - MIT/Monsters f>s> Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>c>s>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c> This message has been edited by deang on 05-29-2002 at 11:38 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbflash Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 Kelly, Good to see you back. Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted May 29, 2002 Author Share Posted May 29, 2002 Thanks for the comments. As for the Super Amp, I think I actually do like it better on my ProAcs and even the little lowly Polk RT-5 office speakers. It is sensitive enough to work with a passive preamp but I find I like it better with an active tube unit. As I said, I think this amp would be a fine addition to many systems. One thing that gives me pause is the ole "Significant Other Volume Test" or SOVT. I was using the Super Amp last weekend to give the 2A3 Monoblocks a rest as they had been on for four weeks solid. During the weekend, Audrey must have asked me to "turn the volume down" no less than a dozen times, throughout the three days. I have found this is really indicative of problems as certain amps, even of the tube variety and especially Solid state, tend to harden with more volume. The Super Amp seemed to suffer from this whether one from vinyl or the Rega, even at volume levels that were not steep. With the 2A3 Monoblocks, you get the feeling you can turn the volume up and up, and the sound just seems to bloom without the onset of this hardness. This is actually quite rare, especially with solid state. The EICO is another amp which blooms with volume as well. Still, as you say, the Super Amp is a very fine amp and does exhibit many good qualities. I actually have only read positive remarks from most owners. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted May 29, 2002 Author Share Posted May 29, 2002 Lovely. FOUR posts and suddenly I am in the "NO LIFE" Klipsch Forum category. What a way to hit below the belt the first time back in this damn place after months... Lord. kh ------------------ Phono Linn LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 Kelly, not sure what your "no life" post above referred to, but it sure is nice to see you back on these pages! I sure hope someone isn't dumping on you already I know I've read twenty-five posts in the last four months saying how much this crew missed you and hoped you were well. Thank you for all your help and open-mindedness with the SuperAmp evaluation. I too would second that it's a really nice amp, esp. for the money -- and dang, it's pretty. It's always an attention getter. But yes, that little Eico that you steered me toward is a good mate to the super-sensitive Klipschorns. I couldn't describe it nearly as eloquently as you, but all the pieces of the music just integrate so nicely, you just forget you're in your listening room and transport to some other place, immersed into the emotion of the music. Welcome back. Suspect there will be a whole lot of posting going on tonight after everybody gets home from work. ------------------ "Bullsh*t!" -PWK- --------------------- TWO-CHANNEL SYSTEM Eico HF-81 Eico HFT-90 AES AE-25 "Superamp" (in temporary retirement) AES AE-3 Pre-amp (in temporary retirement) New Tube 4000 CD Player 1976 Klipschorns (KCBR's & ALK'ed) HOME THEATER Klipsch 1968 ALK Cornwall "II"s (LF/RF) ALK Belle Klipsch (Center) Klipsch Heresy (RR/LR) Klipsch KSW-12 sub Sonic Frontiers Anthem AMP1 (driving Cornwalls) Sonic Frontiers Anthem AMP1 (driving Heresy's) Denon AVR-4800 Toshiba SD-3109 DVD This message has been edited by Chris Robinson on 05-29-2002 at 12:55 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 Kelly, So nice to see you back. The place just hasn't been the same since you left (see the "Where the heck is Everybody" thread under the 2-channel board). I am still tubeless for the moment (except for my phono stage) and look forward to some of your reviews. Just wish I had the money to do anything about it... Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 ah yes...awarded 'no life' status under his moniker. i do believe i'm jealous. still just a 'freak'. ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25f>s>SuperAmpf>s> - Sonic Frontiers Line 1 - Sony DVP-S9000ES - Klipsch RF7's SVS 20-39 CS Plus - Samson S1000 - HSU Research elec. crossover - MIT/Monsters f>s> Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>c>s>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockoman Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 Kelly, A guy takes a couple days off from lurking, only to find a welcome contributor has returned...welcome back! Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conductor Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 Our estranged guru is back. All hail Kelly! ------------------ Talkin' 'bout... Hey now! Hey now! Eico Eico uday. Jockamo feeno ai nane. Jockamo fee nane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted May 30, 2002 Author Share Posted May 30, 2002 Estranged? Yes. Guru? No... No life? Apparently so, based on that horrifying number of posts. Thanks again for the comments here. As said in the past, please come and shoot me if I get 1000 more posts in the same time frame. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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