JustTaylor Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Just picked up a pair of Heresy I speakers in great condition. Serial numbers match and start in 85. They sound amazing to me. The only mod that seems available is the c125 Crites tweeters, as well as the new crossover with lower high pass crossover frequency. I would like here from other Heresy I owners who have made these modifications and how you like the results compared to the original sound of the speakers. Any input appreciated. Thank You. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 If I were you, I'd leave the speakers alone and maybe just change the caps on the networks. Your caps are almost 30 years old and may add resistance to the signals path which will decrease the efficiency of the speakers. I have twelve pairs of Heresy of which 9 are Heresy Is, 2 Heresy IIs and 1 Heresy III. IMO, the Heresy Is are the best in the series. I still cannot hear any significant difference in the midranges between the Heresy Is and Heresy IIs & III. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhoak Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I did just what you described to my last pair of Heresys. I can't speak to the change in sound because the tweeters in mine were shot when I got them. Rather than change diaphragms in the K-77s I just opted for the CT125s. As for the crossover if your buying the whole crossover just specify that you want the 4500 Hz version. If you're going to update your existing crossover Bob will sell you the kit. The 4500 Hz version changes the 2mF cap to a 4mF cap and adds a 160uH inductor in series with the squawker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTaylor Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 The only problem I have is no experience changing capacitors. Who does this type of work? Is it easy for a beginner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhoak Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I would suggest either purchasing complete crossovers or sending your existing crossovers to Mr. Crites for update. The process is fairly easy even for a first timer. The problem you'll run in to is the cost of the necessary tools will quickly offset the savings by doing it yourself. The other option is finding someone local to you who can do it for you. If you're anywhere in the Central Florida area I work for beer. [] [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 JT: welcome to the forum which is the greatest place Klipsch on the internet. I will go further to say that this is one of the special placed to be found on the web. Congratulations on your new to you Heresy. You know there are a lot of Heresy out there and if you feel like playing with this pair why not? You can either undo what you don't like or just get another pair. I would suggest you get a second pair. That way you have a reference point ro check your work against. The CT125 is a very nice sounding tweeter and easily betters the stock K77 in both smoothness and extension. Given the age of your Heresy new capacitors is a very wise idea. As far as crossovers go I agree with SET12 of this forum (who happens to have an excellent thread on a Forte crossover upgrade over at audiokarma dot org) in that large gage air core inductors are the way to go, 12 gage good, ten gage better and 8 gage best. I also believe that better quality auto transformers go a long way toward better mid range. The large C-core German ones are excellent, at about $150.00 each to cheap but worth every penny. The woofer in your Heresy is ok, the K28 in an H3 is better a Forte woofer is better. bigger motor more control. The biggest problem with a Heresy is that the box is substandaed in that it is small full of air leaks and totally unbraced. Below is a link to som pictures of how I think a Heresy should be retro braced. Not that this would not be how I would brace a cabinet I designed from the ground up, this is a retro job in an already undersized cabinet. Materials must be rigid so the choice of red oak. These cabinets also have a structural brace between the back baffle and the mid driver motor not shown in these pictures. There is a lot of mod work that you can or could do to a Heresy to make it better but the question arises do you want to? You need to ask yourself what you want to end up with and then go from there. The point is that while you can learn a lot playing with your Heresy you will spend time and money and still have a Heresy at the end of the day thouh they will be better they will have the same basic compromises of a stock Heresy. Hear is the conclussion that I have come to after two years of playing with a bunch of Klipsch speakers which include Heresy, Heresy 3. Quartet. Forte, Forte ll, KLF20 (two pair) and CF3 parts and that is that bigger horns sound better than smaller horns do. In general three ways sound better than two ways (Heritage Vs Reference) untill you lower the crossover point of your two way to the same range as a three way at which point I prefer a two way with a pair of subs. Efficiency is important and the higher the better. At this point the Heritage line shrinks to two, La Scala and Khorn. I don't have corners and I don't want to make them and I don't like all the compromisws of the Khorn so that leaves a La Scala style cabinet. The biggest issue I see with a La Scala is the K400 mid horn. The La Scala can be turned into a very nice two way. The Peavey SP1 or the two part combo of the FH-1 and the MF1X can be bought for peanuts. The FH-1 is essentially a better La Scala and the MF1X is a half size EV HR9040 bi radial cd mid horn called a CH-1.The CH-1 comes with a good driver called a 22A which has a very cool one piece aluminum former diaphragm and a Mylar suspension which can be upgraded to a titanium diaphragm (unfortunately not a one piece design). This would give you a superb set of parts from which to start a project and at a lower cost than your typical set of Heresy. Yes they are big and some might say ugly but you won't want to switch back to a Heresy of any kind after hearing them. There are diy alternates to the mid hi section take a look at the unity and synergy horns designed by Tom Danley but for a first major project I would suggest building as little as possible. Your hands and mind will be full with lots to think about just doing a major modification. Think about it and figure out what time you have and what resourdes you have and you can go from there. Ask question as there are no shortage of great people here who have likely done what ever you can think about and more who are happy to share with you. You can have a lot of fun and learn a lot and meet a lot of amazing people along the way. What ever you want to do it is the right thing to do for you. Good luck and best regards Moray James. http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=441273&highlight=heresy+heresy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTaylor Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 Thank You. I have some serious food for thought. I have a wonderful sub paired with these. Its not the largest but it works well. It is a velodyne optimum 10. I can't hear where the speaker ends and the sub begins. I like your idea of purchasing another set. I'm not sure if I'm quite ready for the extensive list of mods you have recommended. I must say I added cross braces to my kg4.5 and they now sound spectacular. I may leave these alone for a few months. I have been advised that you should leave functional speakers alone for some time just to become acquainted with their sound. It's a shame, they sound amazing but because of this forum I feel like they have not nearly reached their potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Taylor, This is some of the BEST advice that you have and will ever receive.....! I have been advised that you should leave functional speakers alone for some time just to become acquainted with their sound Upgrade the crossovers and get comfortable with the KLIPSCH sound before you venture into NO mans land...... they sound pretty good stock..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTaylor Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 I think I'm gonna order Heresy III's. I didn't realize how inexpensive they could be had. This stuff really gets a hold of you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 You will be pleased with the H3 they are to me the best of the lot. My late 85 Heresy are almost Heresy ll and I also have a pair of H3. I have rebuilt a pair of H3 with my brother and been inside a second pair of H3. You will want to check the front baffle as all four H3 that I have worked on have loose and leaky front baffles. The link I posted shows the brace work inside a pair of H3 using 3/4" red oak strapping for all the brace work including the piece across the front baffle at the top of the woofer, which is the single most important brace in the whole mod as it stiffens the baffle at its weakest point. You can buy a pair of H3 then sell your Heresy and with the cash back from them snag a pair of Peavey SP1 or FH-1 / MF1X and start your big project on the cheap. I have seen SP1 sell for a few hundred for the pair working.. You could not buy the parts for one La Scala for that kind of money. If you want to start simple and work up you can start with a number of different mods on the H3. Have fun go crazy. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 This advice is insane. Use your Heresys and enjoy them. If they are old, then freshen up the crossover caps. If you need to experiment, then try out different locations in your room (keep them on the floor). If you are not satisfied with the bass (they are a small cabinet after all), then get a sub-woofer. If you are still not satisfied, then get some Cornwalls. If that still does not do it for you, then listen to some Klipschorns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 That is a dangerous recommendation. Right now I am so content with my Klipschorns that I want to sell all of my other speakers and by more Klipschorns. If that still does not do it for you, then listen to some Klipschorns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTaylor Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 What kind of caps are these? They are black boxes. Are these paper in oil caps? Why don't they look like batteries? What were they using in 85? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTaylor Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 Also, do I need to remove all of the components to have these cabinets refinished? Could I just cover the front panel completely and be careful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 If it is me, I would remove all components. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I'll repeat: Listen to them for a few days/weeks. Then, if you are intent on changing the caps, check out the linked thread on changing the level on the mid and tweeter. Read it all, as it changes as comments are added. http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/21971.aspx?PageIndex=1 Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I am not sure what others think here, but IMO, the Heresy Is are the most versatlile and best sounding little speakers PWK has ever made in their stock form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTaylor Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 What is necessary to refinish these HBR's. Do they need to be sanded or stripped or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBoxAudio Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I recently acquired a pair of Heresy I's and see a lot of talk about replacing the two 2MFD caps in each box. So I checked their 'capacity'. All four are within a 3% tolerance, i.e. they range from 1.94 to 1.98 MFD. So, are they trash or treasure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I recently acquired a pair of Heresy I's and see a lot of talk about replacing the two 2MFD caps in each box. So I checked their 'capacity'. All four are within a 3% tolerance, i.e. they range from 1.94 to 1.98 MFD. So, are they trash or treasure? The most common reason to replace audio caps is ESR. You can't test ESR with a MFD type tester. Often with old caps the ESR is over 60 ohms within the intended operating frequency. 60 ohms would caise a big shift in xover performance. Sometimes, after a few hours of use, ESR will go down....but it won't stay down. QT_LowESR.pdf QT_LowESR.pdf QT_LowESR.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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