New member with same old questions

[Knorbu]

Hi all,

I just signed up a few days ago, and after reading many, many threads I have a few questions that hopefully you can help me with.

I had/ have a complete f2 syatem,with the Hartman Karden avr354 as a receiver.I was happy with the setup but was determined at some point to get some 83's ,( I have lusted after those babies ever since I heard them when they came out)

To make a long story a little shorter...I have obtained the Rf-83's, with the intention of slowly obtaining a complete rf system. Yeah right. I got the 83's home , disconnected the f-2's ,hooked them up and listened to ELP's Lucky Man, ( in 2 channel ), I think I was clapping when the song finished.

I immediately thought to myself if 2 are good, 3 would be better, I need to find a RC 64.

But after fiddling around I have come to the conclusion that my next purchase should be an amp. I had always thought that if a speaker was loud ,it was getting enough power, but am now understanding that the Harman Kardans 75 watts x7 is not anywhere close to what I should be feeding the 83's. Is this correct?

My wife likes to listen to music pretty loud ( bless her heart) , and I really don't want to damage the speakers because they are underpowered.

So...if I were to get a 3-5- or 7 channel amp and then get the center, surround and upgrade my sub ,,what watts per channel would work best?

I have already spent my allowance on the fronts , so money is a major consideration.as I said before ,the original plan was to take it slow, and have a dedicated theater room in the basement when my youngest leave the nest.(5-10 years)

Thanks in advance for any help, and sorry about the grammar.

Mark

[ivanhurd]

Do you just have the 83s right now or do you have other speakers in your surround?

[Knorbu]

I am using the c-2 center, s-2 surrounds and have the klipsch 650 watt sub ( can't for the life of me think of what it is, or even if it's 650 watts for that matter, gonna have to look at the paperwork.)

I know this is not the ideal setup, but am going to have to make do until I am able to upgrade all .

I plan on having the complete rf 83 ht system eventually , but for now I would like at least a 3 channel amp to powere the mains and a center when I get one.

The sub would be next on my wish list , with the surrounds being last.

My basement is roughly 20 ft by 15 ft ,which is where I plan on using these when the time comes. Until then I have them in my living room / dining room, which is L shaped. It is not good for a surround system,,but , that's the hand I was dealt.

[derrickdj1]

How to stage an upgrade project? That is a tough question. These comments refer to me and other may do things different. First I would get an avr doing at least 120 watts all channels driven with pre-outs for an eventual amp. Then I would start collecting spakers and get one or two 15in sub. Give us an I deal on fast this upgrade will take place. Initially, upgrading speakers will give you the biggest impact while you grow your system. I would also look for speaker that match the 83's in timber and power design. For example, look at the Klipsch RF 83 theater package. Oh, and congrats on getting those 83's. Some of the RF 83 owner will chime in a give info on their experience. Budget will also be helpful and size/location of the room for the setup. For last, then I would get an amp or additional subwoofers. That avr 354 has pre-outs, so speakers may move to the top of the list on things to get first.

[elitedemo]

if you get the ambition take a look at the xpa2 from emotiva its just flat out sweet for its price, doing it all over again I would have gotten that right away after the 83s since it really makes them sing, but on the other side of things if you happen to see a rc64 near you for sale jump on it since they are going to get tougher to find as time goes on, once these 2 things are in place just take your time and do it right to make yourself happy the first time around

if I had to have a 1 amp solution in 7 channels either the emotiva mps2 or b&k's 7 channel 200wpc amp would have been the next choices for myself

watts really aren't very important as any quality amp is going to outshine the avrs most of them have claims of 200ish and is more than enough on any klipsch speaker

I carefully considered 3 brands being rotel, emotiva, b&k ultimately the winner came down to my justification of cost/preformance, you'll have to decide your channel configuration and pricepoint

[Knorbu]

I am using the c-2 center, s-2 surrounds and have the klipsch 650 watt sub ( can't for the life of me think of what it is, or even if it's 650 watts for that matter, gonna have to look at the paperwork.)

I know this is not the ideal setup, but am going to have to make do until I am able to upgrade all .

I plan on having the complete rf 83 ht system eventually , but for now I would like at least a 3 channel amp to powere the mains and a center when I get one.

The sub would be next on my wish list , with the surrounds being last.

My basement is roughly 20 ft by 15 ft ,which is where I plan on using these when the time comes. Until then I have them in my living room / dining room, which is L shaped. It is not good for a surround system,,but , that's the hand I was dealt.

I must have had my head up myarse when I was saying what sub I had,,it is a ksw12.

In response to timber match etc,,I plan on tracking down a RC 64 at some point if possible,as it seems to be the only center meant for the 83's.

I had originally thought about a 62 ,but after being exposed to the 83's I can't see not getting what is recommended. Then surrounds and sub ..or sub and surrounds.

My main concern now is making sure the fronts and future main will be powered sufficiently ..

I watch a lot of movies but listen to a lot of music as well.

I have never really cared for 5channel stereo ,and have always listened to music in 2 channel.

My 354 has preamp outputs, so I assume I can set it up with an amp.. Is this correct? If so, would a certain brand sound better than another.i see a lot of people using Emotiva,

I could probably swing a xpa3,but down the road could I add another amp with it?

Thanks

[ivanhurd]

^^^Yes, you can always add another amp. If you are just doing 5.1 tho, it probably won't be necessary as the surrounds don't really need as much power and at 2 channels your receiver will be pushing out all the watts advertised.

[derrickdj1]

Also look on the used market for amps and speakers. You can hook up an amp to your avr.

[Knorbu]

Thanks guys.I appreciate your input.

I think I will be focusing on an amp now.

Elite Demo, you have the setup I am trying to come up with ,so when you say that in hindsight you had wished you got an amp sooner, i will follow your hindsight( ?)

I got my speakers from a guy in town who was selling his whole system, he had already sold his 64 when i found his listing. Good for him , bad for me.

Will keep my eyes open for one.

Once again , thanks

[Youthman]

Welcome to the forums and congrats on your new 83 purchase! I have thoroughly enjoyed mine and will give my 2cents worth.

You are smart by building your system slowly as funds become available. IMO, speakers sound better when they are paid for. []

If it were me, as funds became available, I would upgrade in the following order:

Center
Sub
Amp
Surrounds
Receiver or maybe even a Pre/Pro

Here is my logic on that order....if you really love movies, you really need a great center to mate with your 83's. It is estimated that some 80% of all info in a movie comes through your center speaker. Yes, it's that important. Don't skiimp on it and definitely don't get the RC-62. It's a fantastic speaker when paired with the RF-82's but IMO it just can't keep up with the 83's.

Sub next because if you really want to experience the impact during movies, the sub will add that extra umph to your movie experience.

Amp before surrounds simply because the surrounds are important but yours will do for now.

Receiver or Pre/Pro last because to me, an 200 watt/ch amp would be a MUCH better investment than buying an receiver with higher wattage. As long as your receiver sounds great to you, adding an amp will only make it sound better. Trust me, I had a Yamaha RX-V1800 and although it claimed 130 x 7, in 3rd party bench tests, it was more along the lines of 130 x 2, 120 x 3, 100 x 5 and only 55 x 7. Pretty sad for a $1200 receiver.

I encourage you to check out my build thread in my signature. You can see the process I went through, somewhat similar to yours and my thought process behind it. I really enjoyed doing the build thread and you might want to consider it as well. I received a lot of great advice as I built my dedicated HT and slowly over time built my system as funds became available.

With that said.....if a great deal comes along, by all means, forget the above order. If a Velodyne HGS15 sub came along for $200 (happened to me), you best jump on that quick! Look for deals, watch the garage sale, craigslist, ebay, and audiogon.

There really isn't a right or wrong way of upgrading. My suggestion is save up your money, continue to look for great buys (new or used) and build your system slowly. To me, it was just as fun building my system and finding those killer deals as it is having almost a finished HT (not sure it will ever really be totally finished).

Best wishes with your adventure and be sure to post some pics of your setup!

Michael

[Scrappydue]

Thanks guys.I appreciate your input.
I think I will be focusing on an amp now.
Elite Demo, you have the setup I am trying to come up with ,so when you say that in hindsight you had wished you got an amp sooner, i will follow your hindsight( ?)
I got my speakers from a guy in town who was selling his whole system, he had already sold his 64 when i found his listing. Good for him , bad for me.
Will keep my eyes open for one.
Once again , thanks

black rc-64 on ebay right now!!! i think it is at 305$ last time i looked. maybe you could snag that up. if i was in your shoes, i would go with the rc-64 first. cause my luck as soon as you bought an xpa-2 a rc-64 would pop up and you wouldn't have the dough. like someone above said those are just going to be harder to find. emotiva will always have the amp you need. then once you track the front three down, i would go with the xpa-5 first so you can drive the the 83/64 and whatever it is you have, then go with the xpa down the road to open up the 83's a little more. or who knows you might just stay with 5.1 and be good and save your self a little money. cause if you buy the xpa-2 first, then you are gonna want the xpa-3 down the road and spend alot more than what you would have on the xpa-5.

[Knorbu]

Thanks Scrappydue, you deserve a scooby treat for the heads up. I will give eBay a shot. I bought my speakers from 99489redline .He sold his RC-64 for 450.00 , which was a helluva bargin. Maybe I will get lucky....Youthman, I looked at your build thread. You defiantly had a plan and had the good fortune of carrying it out, there's a lot of info I will refer back to on it. Thanks

Everyone has been super helpful with good advice and good intentions, plus I have only changed my mind twice in a 12 hour period,,not bad!

[tmassey]

I had my RF-83's powered with a 110 watt per channel receiver and it sounded great, but when I added my XPA-5 to get them 200 watts, they really just came alive as if someone was holding their hand over the woffers and tweeter before. I also had an RC-62 hooked up to them as well. It sounded good to me, but when I added the RC-64, it just felt like they were a much better complement to the 83's. I definitely suggest saving up the extra couple hundred and getting on that. I do plan on getting an XPA-2 eventually for my 83's to see if there is any difference, but that won't be for a few months probably.

As far as receivers go, you will definitely only want to consider receivers that have preouts so you can add an amp later. I would also suggest not worrying too much about all the extra features like internet radio and all that. You can always get everything you need later, and saving yourself some money, by getting an AppleTV or Roku or something along those lines. It's usually okay to go with an older model receiver as well to save yourself some money. In my opinion, they usually don't see a lot of improvements year over year. I really liked my old Pioneer unit myself. I am not using it anymore, and am having a very hard time letting it go because I can't get near what I think it's worth out of it. As long as you don't turn it up too much, I would also not put a lot of consideration into how many watts per channel it has either. Once you get an external amplifier, those will likely mean absolutely nothing to you. The one thing I can think of that you will want for sure is decoding of the newer audio formats (Dolby TrueHD and DTS-MA)

As far as getting surrounds, I got a pair of RS-62's that I like very much. However, I think that an RS-52 or even an RS-42 would be great with the 83's. There just isn't a lot of very demanding audio coming out of the surrounds. And with the pretty big price jump from the RS-52 to the RS-62, I think if I could have skimped without hearing any audible difference anywhere in my system, it would have been the RS-62s. On the other hand, I will never feel the need to upgrade them either though, because I believe they are the best surround I can get that would match well with the 83s, so there is the peace of mind.

And grats on your 83s! I was in the same boat with the lust, and as soon as I heard a pair, I had to have! Let's see some pictures! You might be surprised, someone might have a good idea on how to better position them. Messing with the positioning is the cheapest and easiest way to improve a speakers performance. I was a little bored last night and decided to get out a tape measure and start measuring distances making sure they were both toed in exactly the same, and one was a little wider than the other so I fixed that and centered my seating position on them, and I was a little astounded at how much clearer the soundstage was. If you have the time, I would definitely suggest trying to tweak their positioning and angled right so they are pointing towards you. Even though what you are hearing now sounds fantastic, there is a chance it gets even better!

[Youthman]

I have only changed my mind twice in a 12 hour period,,not bad!

That's just the beginning...[]

I concur with tmassey, the RS-52's are more than sufficient with my RF-83 setup. I have no desire to upgrade to the RS-62's. Picked my RS-52's up on craigslist for a sweet price. Keep an eye out.

[Knorbu]

Thanks tmassey,

I have all the fixin's, ,Apple t.v., Playstation,,X-box..I am short on the meat and potatoes.

After a negotiation period with my wife ,I will get some pictures up. She does not like it when I rearrange things without her approval. As it is ,everything is angled in a corner,I have the 83's out from the wall about 8 inches and tilted toward where i sit, but at this point its kinda ugly. I'm thinking a bottle of her favorite wine is in order,,,