Jim Cornell Posted June 6, 2002 Share Posted June 6, 2002 Looking at the owners manual to my Chorus, you guys ready for this!!!!!!! 1- Kornerhorn 2- La Scalas 3- Belle 4- Chorus 5- Cornwall 11 6- Forte 7- KG 2 8- KG-4 9- Heresy 11 In that exact order! In those days, that was it, as far as Klipsch! So, if the Chorus is heritage then so are the KG2 KG4, the Heresy is listed last! On this owners manual, the word heritage is NOT on it at all! And its signed by Paul Klipsch Cool! This making of a legend says, nothing of heritage, the word isnt there! 1984-1989 Klipsch Chorus brochure 1989 says, 36hz, didnt notice that, also does not mention heritage! So it looks like at that time there was no borders, heritage or not, nothing was called heritage! It was all sold on one brochure! Upon separating these 3 series, the KGs and Forte, and Chorus, were left out! So even though they have a name, Chorus, Forte, it looks like they werent quite heritage, they were at the time just sold, on the same brochure with them! I mean, the Chorus, is one up from the Cornwall 11s!! The Hersey, is last in line! Here it is, plain as day, black and white! WOW The word Heritage is NOT on any of these brochures! Regards Jim LOL! PS (A legend in sound) is on all 3 brochures! This message has been edited by Jim Cornell on 06-06-2002 at 07:01 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted June 6, 2002 Author Share Posted June 6, 2002 Im getting out of hand with this, let this post burn out! Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted June 6, 2002 Share Posted June 6, 2002 Cannot fault the passion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted June 6, 2002 Share Posted June 6, 2002 Jim Yup - That sounds like the Klipsch line up of '89. I have my owners manual from '81 and the line up is: Klipschorn LaScalla Belle Cornwall Heresy The phrase "A Legend in Ssound" is also there. This old lineup now called "Heritage" were "the speakers that Paul built". I think the "Heritage" title came a long time later as the "new" klipsch company is maintaining its heritage of the great PWK speakers. I do not remember anybody in the '80's calling Klipsh speakers as Heritage. IMHO - I can see why the Chorus is listed higher than the Cornwall. I love the Chorus's sound. I prefer it over the Cornwall. I have owned both in the past. The Forte has much better bass than the Heresy so I can see its place on your list. Can not comment on the KG's. I consider the Chorus and Forte, (evan if they are not pure PWK speakers) equal to the "Heritage" line evan though they lack the physical quality of the original plywood PWK speakers. I think the Chorus is probably the best sounding tower speaker EVER built. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted June 7, 2002 Author Share Posted June 7, 2002 I just dont hear a difference in high end, between my cornwalls, and these chorus, actually these chorus sound better! Id better cut back on the subject, before i get banned next LOL! Its neat having the original Klipsch line up 13 years ago, wow! Regards Jim This message has been edited by Jim Cornell on 06-07-2002 at 12:10 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Well...the order of the speakers in that list has nothing to do with their ranking in price(ie., Belles are more expensive than a LaScala)...OR alphabetical order ranking, OR the order in which they were designed....and it SURELY has nothing to do with their ranking in quality(Who would put a KG2 ahead of a Heresy?)!!! Sooooo...just what does that order represent? Nothing!! It is just a list of what was available at the time! Pretty simple!! The term "heritage" for the designs of PWK came along later...most likely at a time after the Chorus and Forte had been dropped from the line...that is why they have no particular niche grouping...nothing wrong with those speakers, but they still aren't "heritage", because they weren't designed by PWK...pretty simple!! If It makes you feel any better, at the time the "heritage" moniker was given to the k-horn, belle, lascala, cornwall, and heresy models....they also left out the rebel and shorthorn...and PWK's little TV speaker from the 50's as well...and those WERE PWK designs, but had been dropped from the line MANY years earlier...so they don't have a niche grouping either, do they? Klipsch speakers are definitely an obsession...but maybe it is time for some of us to get out a bit more!! LOL! ------------------ I can now receive private messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted June 7, 2002 Author Share Posted June 7, 2002 LOL i second that emotion. Just another day off stuck at home! Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 HDBRbuilder - Not to dispute you, 'cause I wasn't there , but I had it from other sources at Klipsch that PWK WAS involved in the design of the Forte/Chorus (he called the Forte the KG "5", I heard, before there was an official KG5.x). I also recall seeing a pair of Forte's in PWK's office at his home, and a pair of Quartets in a back bedroom. Seems odd he would have those in his house if they weren't part of his family. Doug ------------------ My System This message has been edited by dougdrake on 06-07-2002 at 12:20 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 LOL!Dougdrake, I am sure that PWK "WAS INVOLVED" in some way or the other with EVERY speaker the company ever made up until his death...but that "INVOLVEMENT" varied quite widely from just answering questions the engineer team had over a design and providing input for improvement of these team efforts...to complete designs of his own...and the so-called "heritage" line were primarily his own solo work in their original design...with modifications applied over the years by PWK and the engineering team. The rest were more of a TEAM effort, than a PRIMARY effort of ONLY PWK, I am sure...ESPECIALLY the KG series!! By the early 1980's PWK had already gotten to the point where he was the "old master", making himself readily available to provide guidance and advice to the engineers assigned to a project...instead of providing a specific COMPLETED DESIGN for the specific project and handing it over to the engineer team to "make it happen"...that is just how things generally work in an engineering department!! You must consider that PWK's primary emphasis has ALWAYS been proponency of FULLY-HORN-LOADED SYSTEMS...and none of those HOME SPEAKER designs since the early 1980's falls into that category...not until the JUBILEE, just recently!!...think about it!! The KG series began life as a more affordable alternative to the larger "heritage" series speakers...for small apartments and condos...to establish a foothold in that growing market and also to initially provide some true smaller bookshelf designs...and PWK and Gary Gillum collaborated closely on that project in its infancy...but it was a TEAM EFFORT, even then!! Every home speaker design SINCE the beginning of the KG series in the 1980's has been a compromise in trying to get a NON-FULLY-HORN-LOADED speaker to have a performance comparable to that of a FULLY-HORN-LOADED speaker (with the k-horn being the comparison point), but these newer designs were needed in a smaller package...to fill voids in the company's marketable line. Strange enough, even the Jubilee was an attempt to provide a smaller package that provided k-horn-like performance(or better)...in a TWO-WAY fully-horn-loaded system! But with the Jubilee, PWK was DIRECTLY HEAVILY involved with the design...especially the design of the bass bin!!...which made the design more closely attributable to him, alone!! As a matter of fact...even the other designs that are DIRECTLY attributed to PWK from 1950's and 1960's...were all compromises (that DID lead to SOME great speakers over the years!!)in an attempt to provide varying designs for different purposes, BUT that ALSO would most closely approach the performance of the k-horn, but in a smaller package...and even PWK readily admitted that a few of his designs that became manufactured really weren't very good speakers (compared to his baby, the k-horn, anyway)! The engineering team at Klipsch has a number of people who each began with particular specialties in loudspeaker design, but who ALL have tended to gain experience in the specialties of others over time until they become well-versed in over-all loudspeaker design...that is how it works...and how it has always worked!! For many years...even back in the early days of the company...PWK provided guidance to all of these individuals...leading them to successfully work as a team to design the products the company has offered over the years. That team grew from JUST PWK himself in the 1950's, to an assistant in the 1960's, to a real team (albeit a small one of just a couple of others) by the beginning of the 1970's. And that team continued to slowly grow through the early 1980's and up til the present!! All the while, this team was having some of its members over the years come and go...with a handful remaining for many years!!! This team was head-up by the knowledgeable old master, himself...until his health finally began to fail a few years ago...but, even then, he made himself available to the engineers working on projects and monitored the designs as they came to fruition!! And as his finale, he headed-up his own personal final project...the Jubilee!! Until the advent of the KG series in the early 1980's, the company never even made its own drivers!! The company, until that time, just made its own horn prototypes, sourcing-out for their manufacture, and just the cabinets for these were actually built by the company(including the folded horns, of course)!! It depended upon other sources for its drivers!! Driver companies from all over the world sent drivers to be tested for the company's line of speakers for many years...and I am quite sure this is still the case for SOME of the speaker line!! It was common for a driver, once tested, to be sent back to its manufacturer to be slightly modified for further testing in order to determine if it was a viable one to use in the company's line of speakers!! But, by the early 1980's, the company had bought driver making equipment and utilized this to develop its own line of drivers for most of the designs since then!! This was, in large part, due to the hiring of some new engineers who specialized in driver design!! So....with the exception of the so-called "heritage" series (and those other speakers PWK designed, but which were taken out of production over a quarter of a century ago)...and likely the Jubilee...all of the products the company has offered since the "heritage" series are a team effort...some of which have had more input, and some of which have had less input...from PWK into their designs!! But, I doubt that ANY of these designs do not have at least some of PWK's design principles heavily involved in their development...whether he had to actually provide these ideas to the particular engineers involved in the design, or whether those principles had been previously instilled into the engineers by PWK (or others who learned from him) when those engineers were working on other previous projects!! Sooooo...There is still at least a bit of PWK in every design the company has come out with, wouldn't you agree? Pretty simple!! One hint that may give a clue as to just how MUCH input from PWK was involved in the design of any speakers since the original "heritage" series may well have to do with what the speaker is called. PWK tended to give NAMES to speakers that he had designed or had had a large hand in designing...NOT just a SERIES name with the different speaker models being referred to by some letters and numbers...and these normally had some bit of a pun involved in the naming of the speaker....the Forte, Chorus, Quartet, Jubilee, etc... have NAMES, don't they? ------------------ I can now receive private messages This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 06-09-2002 at 11:24 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Thanks! I see what you are saying. Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted June 7, 2002 Author Share Posted June 7, 2002 Sorry HDBRbuilder If im ever in the area you can smack me LOL! These are very nice speakers, and were worth the argue! LOL In done! Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 9, 2002 Share Posted June 9, 2002 After looking around on the official site for the speakers that are no longer available, I have noted the following: Klipsch Audio Technologies states that the following are part of the "Heritage" line, whether currently in production or not: A. Current "Heritage" models in production: 1. Klipschorn. Did PWK design this one? We all know he did!! But he had assistance in its development over the years...especially the latter years! 2. Belle Klipsch. Did PWK design this one? We all know he did, but he probably had a bit of help from an assistant in developing it. 3. LaScala. Did PWK design this one? We all know he did, but he probably had a good bit of help from an assistant in developing it. 4. Heresy II. Did PWK design this one? We all know he did...it was an evolution from the previous Heresy, which in turn was an evolution from his previous "H" model...but he had assistance in developing this one at different stages of its history...especially the latter stage which changed it into the Heresy II. B. Former "Heritage" series speakers no longer in production, as noted on this website under heading "Classic" series speakers: 1. Shorthorn 15. Made from 1956-1965. Did PWK design this? Yes. 2. Shorthorn 12. Made from 1956-1965. Did PWK design this? Yes. 3. Rebel. Made from 1949-1958. Did PWK design this? Yes. 4. Rebel 4. Made from 1955-1958. Did PWK design this? Yes. 5. Rebel 7. Made from 1966-1973. Did PWK design this? Yes, but he may have had some assistance in its further development from his assistant(s). 6. Cornwall. Made from 1959-1985. Did PWK design this? Yes. 7. Cornwall II. Made from 1985-1990. Did PWK design this? Yes, but its further development into this version included assistance from his engineering team. 8. Forte. Made from 1985-1989. Did PWK design this? I don't know, but I would ASSUME that he at least had a MAJOR input into its design with the assistance of his engineering department...or else why is it considered a "Heritage" speaker by the company? 9. Forte II. Made from 1989-1996. Did PWK design this? It is a further development of the Forte, with assistancee from his engineering department most likely. 10. Chorus. Made from 1987 to 1990. Did PWK design this? I don't know, but I would ASSUME that he at least had a MAJOR input into its design with the assistance of his engineering department...or else why is it considered a "Heritage" speaker by the company? 11. Chorus II. Made from 1990-1996. Did PWK design this? It is a further development of the Chorus, with assistance of his engineering department, most likely. 12. Quartet. Made from 1989-1996. Did PWK design this? I don't know, but I would ASSUME that he at least had a MAJOR input into its design with the assistance of his engineering department...or else why is it considered a "Heritage" speaker by the company? Please note that all of the above-named speakers have a NAME!!! Not just a SERIES NAME!! There is some reason for this, too!! PWK did not actually give the name "Klipschorn" to the k-horn, but that moniker was given to it by other audiophiles early on in its development, and PWK liked the name, adopted it, and copyrighted it. He originally just called it his "Cornerhorn Sound Reproducer". He later tended to NAME all of his designs, taking great delight in making the name appropriate to the intent for the speaker, while ensuring a bit of a pun was involved in each of the names!! That was his nature!! And that is something to consider in whether he was the PRIMARY designer of the particular speaker model. Are the above named speakers the only ones that PWK designed or had a hand in designing? Are there any speakers PWK designed not included in the above by the listings on this website? Most likely so, but you will have to ask other bulletin board members more informed about them than I am. But, I definitely know that the "vertical horn" model of the Cornwall, originally called the Cornwall II, is not mentioned in the above...and it WAS a factory model!! Does it mean that PWK DIDN'T design a speaker just because a particular speaker the company has produced over the years doesn't have a specific name attached to it? Who knows? I am sure that no matter what a speaker the company has produced has as its designation, PWK had at least a bit of input into its design, though!! If not directly, then indirectly...since those engineers responsible for the design most likely had already aquired much knowledge from PWK himself...or through those other engineers around them...who had aquired that knowledge from him...that is to be expected, don't you agree? I hope this helps to answer some or all of this hoopla raised over the so-called "Heritage" series models!!...I was curious, so I did what research I could on it!! I am very interested in other input from those who really KNOW about it, and who have the exact meaning as to why the company came to call certain models "Heritage" models!! Inquiring minds OBVIOUSLY want to know!! LOL! ------------------ I can now receive private messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 9, 2002 Share Posted June 9, 2002 Great posts Builder. ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25/ S F Line 1/ S9000ES/ HSU x-over/ SVS CS+/ RF-7 Klipschcones®f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted June 9, 2002 Author Share Posted June 9, 2002 It looks like Paul himself would be the only true one to answer this overall! So this will remain a mystery till the end of time! Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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