Klipsch Heritage line speakers lower than 33 hertz

[StratCountry]

I was just wondering why the lowest frequency in the Heritage series goes no lower than 33hz with 15" drivers?

Seems to me there is a constant learning/understanding, about all these audio gear specs, but reading through this forum, I'm getting a better grasp on it.

Thanks

[moray james]

impact upon efficiency. you gotta give to get. along with reduced efficiency you also get increased distortion. that's why you see 4 and 5 way rigs. Best regards Moray James.

[T.H.E. Droid]

Probably because 99.99% of music when the speakers were designed didn't contain anything at that low of a frequency.

[JJkizak]

PWK couldn't bend a 30 HZ frequency around the inside stuff without making the cabinet humongous.

JJK

[StratCountry]

PWK couldn't bend a 30 HZ frequency around the inside stuff without making the cabinet humongous.

JJK

You're saying, bigger the speaker cabinet is, the lower the frequency that a bass driver can pruduce?

Forgive my naiveness...

[moray james]

yes most of the time to save space you will see bass horns with a 1/4 wavelength path so 25% of the length of the frequency that you want to reproduce with the horn. This makes for large cabinets and you most always need to run at lease four or six to get the mouth size large enough. That is why you see mostly box subs not horns.If you look at a La Scala I think it starts to roll off at about 100 - 125 Hz. Best regards Moray James.

http://community.klipsch.com/blogs/technical/archive/2009/09/17/thump-does-thump-bass-extension.aspx

[Turbox]

If you look at a La Scala I think it starts to roll off at about 100 - 125 Hz.

There is absolutely nothing below 45 Hz or so on a La Scala.

That is why you see mostly box subs not horns

And Box subs, that dig real deep tend to have larger volumes(cubic feet). This changes if you have a passive involved. Even the better horn loaded subs are Large as well. Take a Tuba for example. the Best performance you will get from a Tuba sub is by making it wider with a larger driver. Check out the KPT884, single 18 inch driver, with huge volume(as in cubic ft). KPT684, has two 18 inch drivers with less volume(cubic ft) and wont dig as deep as the 884.

+1 for Subs

[mustang guy]

The easy way to calculate a sound wavelength is to take the speed of sound and divide it by the frequency.

eg: 1,126 feet per second divided by 40 Hz = 28'

Most horn loaded speakers are built at 1/4th wavelength (as Moray stated). In the above case, the horn length (when all straightened out) would be 1/4th of 28', or 7'.

The Klipschorn digs deeper than other heritage speakers cause it utilizes the actual room corner as an extension of the horn.

[Guest " "]

the spec's are not universal....so klipsch might say 33hz to 17khz and -5db at 40hz....while other manufactures might say 20hz to 20khz and leave out that at 20hz, they are -20db.

[Turbox]

no kidding, Bose does 15Hz in that little box they got....lol.

[moray james]

Hey NASA put them on the space shuttle right? So you better believe it. and this really is a rulox watch I got here...... Best regards Moray James.

[StratCountry]

the spec's are not universal....so klipsch might say 33hz to 17khz and -5db at 40hz....while other manufactures might say 20hz to 20khz and leave out that at 20hz, they are -20db.

This explains why I see specs 20hz - 20khz on speakers that have 15" drivers. Manufactures do this just to misinform the potential buyers?

What does it mean if the manufacture would say, -20db after the given hertz range?

[Quiet_Hollow]

Manufactures do this just to misinform the potential buyers?

Blind leading the blind.

Manufacturers can fudge specifications that consumers don't even understand.

What does it mean if the manufacture would say, -20db after the given hertz range?

Depends on the context. -20 dB in a frequency reponse chart is a technical way of saying "useless" at such and such point.

[pzannucci]

Klipsch is typically about efficiency.

Low resonance points require a heavy cone. A heavy cone will typically lead to lower efficiency to get a deeper frequency response that in turn requires more power to push it to those lower frequencies.

There is also the box portion of the equation. The larger the box you will have a lower resonant point. That lower resonant point will also require less power with a big box. The smaller boxes require heavier cones and power compensation usually in the form of a gain in power as the frequency gets lower. That is how small boxes get low bass, feed the woofer kilowatts to make it overcome and compensate for the tiny box it is in, disregarding the big box requirement. Very low efficiency with HUGE amps.

Something like the JL Fathom f212 - 3000 watts -Frequency response: 20–97Hz, ±1.5dB; 19–110Hz, ±3dB; 15–157Hz, ±10dB. Distortion: <6.5% THD at 50Hz, 124dB output at 1m,

All this in a box that has a smaller internal volume than a Cornwall. Power overcomes physics - kind of.

[StratCountry]

Klipsch is typically about efficiency.

Low resonance points require a heavy cone. A heavy cone will typically lead to lower efficiency to get a deeper frequency response that in turn requires more power to push it to those lower frequencies.

Awesome, this helps a lot understanding why a powered sub will help to maintain the main front speakers efficiency while delivering more low-end frequencies out of the sub.

With so much volume space (cabinet size) such as a speaker the size of the Cornwalls, would there be a higher risk of boominess or is the risk the same with powered subs? I imagine there are so many things to take into consideration between the two types of speakers, the cabinet size & how the sub is designed.

[JJkizak]

And keep in mind the Klipsch subs vary from 1500 to 2500 watts with the built in amps.

JJK

[StratCountry]

And keep in mind the Klipsch subs vary from 1500 to 2500 watts with the built in amps.

JJK

I now see what you mean, the smaller the box, the bigger the amp (watts), therefore creating more undesirable effects in the speakers. While in the old days, it was the other way around, resulting in more efficient sounding speakers.

[mustang guy]

And keep in mind the Klipsch subs vary from 1500 to 2500 watts with the built in amps.

JJK

I now see what you mean, the smaller the box, the bigger the amp (watts), therefore creating more undesirable effects in the speakers. While in the old days, it was the other way around, resulting in more efficient sounding speakers.

...and the reason is WAF! (wife acceptance factor)

[pzannucci]

Klipsch is typically about efficiency.

Low resonance points require a heavy cone. A heavy cone will typically lead to lower efficiency to get a deeper frequency response that in turn requires more power to push it to those lower frequencies.

Awesome, this helps a lot understanding why a powered sub will help to maintain the main front speakers efficiency while delivering more low-end frequencies out of the sub.

With so much volume space (cabinet size) such as a speaker the size of the Cornwalls, would there be a higher risk of boominess or is the risk the same with powered subs? I imagine there are so many things to take into consideration between the two types of speakers, the cabinet size & how the sub is designed.

I found with the speakers I have built that more of the boominess comes from the cabinet and port design than the size. A thick cabinet, heavy bracing, proper amount of damping, and if using ports, the length and type of port can remove the boom and overhang. Matching the woofer(s), box size, and tuning at or somewhat below the woofers when using ports seems to alleviate ugliness if the box is well designed. FWIW...

[CECAA850]

And keep in mind the Klipsch subs vary from 1500 to 2500 watts with the built in amps.

JJK

I now see what you mean, the smaller the box, the bigger the amp (watts), therefore creating more undesirable effects in the speakers. While in the old days, it was the other way around, resulting in more efficient sounding speakers.

THIS should explain it for you.