Gregorius Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 Greetings Gentlemen, I have gathered alot of info about PWK in this forum,I have learned that he used K-horns with a Belle center, etc. What did he use for amplification, sources, analog and or digital. I figured that some of you that have met him would know. Enquiring minds want to know. Thanks, Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 I am sure his equipment varied over the years. At the time of my visit in c. 1972, he had Saul Marantz VT amps. They were, of course, built by Saul himself and very, very beautiful to look at. The source he used that day was an Ampex 450 console RR playing a half-track recording at 15ips of the E. Power Biggs/Ormandy/Philadelphia recording of the Saint Saens "Organ" Symphony. Imprinted in my mind forever! Don't know how he obtained the RR...definitely not a transfer from disk. At this time, he had a Cornwall in the center. I think his listening area moved a bit from time to time as well. Another forum member has described a much smaller listening area than I recall at about the same time. One thing that apparently remained the same most of the years was his use of a little Frazier Super Midget speaker with a handle attached to demonstrate the effect of corner placement. Very effectively, too. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Reed Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 I remember he had a McIntosh powering everything. I've looked at that system numerous times and can't remember anything but the Mac right now. I was always too much in awe of the man to pay much attention to anything else. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 ... and don't forget the famous zip cord speaker wires! (as I slink away into the bushes to watch the ensuing debate ) Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOUNDJUNKIE Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 THOSE zip cords are OK...they're famous. I S-E-E-E Y-O-U behind that Pyacantha coccinea 'Lalandi'! This message has been edited by SOUNDJUNKIE on 06-11-2002 at 06:56 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 When we were in the living room for the Grand Pilgrimage, I thought there were some Revox amps. Something Swiss? I'm not certain. I don't recall it being Mac. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 I don't know what turntable PWK used at home, but in the first listening room in the old red brick building, completed in the early 1980's, the turntable was an Empire 598 Troubadour model! A very EXPENSIVE and popular "audiophile" belt-drive model of that time!! ------------------ I can now receive private messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 Following up. I've gotten the impression he was particularly taken with reel to reel tape. There is an interview in Vacuum Tube Valley where, I recall, he implied he thought it solved a lot of problems and he expected it to be more popular than turned out. His publications report his live recording adventures. There were some boxes of "Klipsch Tape" around the museum. Seems like he was dabbling with going into the business of being publisher. My recall is that some popular commercial recordings were available on 7.5 ips stereo tape in the late '60's, early '70's. These from the major record companies. Also, major manufactureres had home recording units which had very good specs. On the other hand, treading up a reel to reel might have been beyond the casual consumer. There was pressure from other media. Perhaps that is why it didn't catch on. At about the time (early '70's) 8 track cartridges (3.25 ips) and cassettes (1 7/8 ips) were becoming popular. Not high quality, but convenient, and the only media which could be used in an automobile. Sony had a short lived 3.25 inch cassette. "Metal" tape with Dolby filled the gap through most of the late '70's. Then there was the promise of CD. I doubt he would stoop to the poor performance of tape cassette or cartridge. I place the dawn of CD at the early '80's. I recall he did some research on why some sounded strident on his K-Horns. There were suspicions at the times that some duplications of historic studio tapes had not paid proper attention to high end equalization. Looking back at the literature, there was struggle. He had created the ultimate speaker with the K-Horn. That includes the treble units. However, there were problems finding good source material and amplifiers. He needed the very best for the application. It may be fair to say he invested a fair amount of time in finding good sources for his speakers. Oh yeah, PWK had a business relationship with a high end Japanese cartridge manufacturer. The hunt for good sources continues today. The speakers reveal problems with source material and amplifiers (particularly at the milliwatt level where we operate). Casual experimenters, and unwashed critics, attribute such problems to the K-Horns, in error. I suspect he was more than happy to experiment with his choice of microphones, placement, amplification, etc. so that he could control all aspects of the chain. He was no Ludite but also would not adopt unfounded technology unless he had established for himself that it had merit. Regards, Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 Gil, I have to agree with the points you have made here. It must have been terribly frustrating for PWK to spend almost a quarter of a century in his endeavor to come up with a speaker that could not only reproduce sounds within the musical spectrum so very accurately and efficiently, but also fit into a room within a person's home! But the sweet success of his Klipschorn was overshadowed by further frustration in his realization over the next half a century that so very little had been accomplished in the area of attainment of that SAME consistant accuracy in amplifiers, pre-amplifiers, and equipment feeding varying source material formats INTO those amplifiers and preamps!! And, to add another further burden of frustration to all of this, the development of formats in which original source material was stored would, for the last quarter of a century of his life, be more concerned with CONVENIENCE OF USE and PORTABILITY, than it was concerned with sonic accuracy...a complete reversal of the trend prior to 1970!! Can you imagine developing the perfect aircraft, but, no matter what kind of fuel or engine was used, it just did not live up to the latent potential of the rest of the machine which you had already developed? Or developing the perfect plant food staple, but not being able to find the right soil and climate with which to give the plant its best possible yield? Once, in the early 1980's, PWK was interviewed, and he was asked what his future goal in the world of audio was...he replied..."to concentrate on eliminating harmonic distortion from equipment and source formats". Those, as you call them, "casual experimenters and unwashed critics"...the ones who blame the klipschorn for the bad they hear in other equipment, would never understand the frustration PWK felt from the very first time he ever hooked his first K-horn up to listen to it....it wasn't the speaker...it was EVERYTHING ELSE that needed improving!!! The K-horn was...and STILL IS...the microscope under which every link from the original sound made to the k-horn itself is scrutinized in order to discover maladies and provide a cure for them so that the most perfect of sound reproduction may be achieved!! And that is what it IS all about NOW...and HAS been since 1945!! Nuff Said!! The sound room I mentioned earlier also had a TASCAM-badged version of the earlier Teac-badged 2340 4-channel reel deck and a 4-channel DBX unit in it when it was first completed in the early 1980's, too!! The demo tape which was recorded for visitors to that sound room was an actual 3-channel recording on that reel tape deck, and was used to provide the utmost in demonstration of the K-horn-Belle three-speaker-stereo- array!! ------------------ I can now receive private messages This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 06-11-2002 at 10:11 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 Yeah, I think we're all on the same wavelength. Gregorious asked a legit question. As one of our fellow posters quotes, "If you don't like what is coming out, you don't like what is going in." I'd think that PWK may have relished when he had the great recording, a good room, and the good amp, and could show it all off. I do. We all do. Yet, then he'd be open to inquires, as we have here. They are typically of the form, "I'm thinking of buying an XYZ amp and ABC turntable; will it sound good in my room which is roughly 8 x 18 and if not what should I do about it. By the way, I have a minimal budget and expect an answer while standing on one foot." Daunting. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregorius Posted June 12, 2002 Author Share Posted June 12, 2002 Gentlemen, I was just curious about his equipment. Given PWK's no BS philosophy approach to HiFi. (ie. zip cord speaker wires) I thought it would be interesting to find out from first hand sources, what he used over the years. Greg ------------------ HK AVR20 II Toshiba DVD 32" Toshiba TV Odyssey Stratos 1976 LaScala's Front L&R KV-1 Center KG 1.5 Rear L&R KSW-12 Sub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 Well, Greg, you started a thread without controversy that is absolutely fascinating in the concordance of all who were there: The only thing that didn't change with PWK was faith in his 'horns. Wish I'd been there when they took out the trash!!!! Gil: Of course, there was also the Elcaset, which had promise but no market. RCA also had a REALLY big cartridge (about 5"X8" or so if I recall) that also went nowhere fast. Before and during early 8 track, there was also the 4 track cartridge. It used the same mechanism still employed in quite a few radio stations for commercials. The head did not move as on the 8 track, and it was quite superior to them. Died a similar death to Beta. The main thrust of this thread has been PWK's obvious frustration with sources and source material. We all share it. His speakers are absolutely unforgiving. Unfortunately, even audiophiles will ascribe all manner of evil to the wrong source, especially if they have inherent bias (as we all do) to start with. One of the wonderful aspects of Klipsch ownership is not having to worry about the function of at least ONE aspect of your music chain. Thank God for PWK! I am sure he has already suggested that Gabriel set up a Khorn and take a break... Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 kinda surprised that the book did not have this in it... unless i over looked it. on to the reel to reel thing... OT, but i was in the attic running Cat5 cables to prepare for my new XBOX and found two boxes of reel-to-reel canisters. my dad had this top secret (LoL) club when he was young and they recorded every meeting. to the right of it i found the ree-to-reel player, very compact, i was thinking they would be larger. anyways, it uses a tube... either the tube is not good or it just takes forever for it to warm up. any ideas? i would love to hear these things, especially since fathers day is sunday. any ideas on how to get this thing working again? ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 "kinda surprised that the book did not have this in it... unless i over looked it." What were you referring to? As to your reels, you did not mention the brand/model of RR. A Wollensack model (I forget the exact designation at the moment) accounted for 3 of 4 mono RR machines in use for over 20 years as it became unbiqitous in the public schools and colleges. Generally indestructable, and all but the last few years production were VT based. If you can't make it work and are desperate to hear those tapes, let me know and we can arrange something. I am only 25 miles or so away. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 i was referring to Paul W Klipsch, The Life, The Legend. PWK's biography. i am going to go back to the attic and get the reel-to-reel and see what kind it is. but it is probably the one you were talking about that schools had. ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 Justin, I think he knew which book...he was wanting to know what it was you DIDN'T FIND IN THE BOOK!! If you didn't find out about his frustration over sources and source equipment in the book, then all you have to do is read some of his articles for journals and magazines to see he was frustrated about this!! Half of the article he wrote in 1951 dealt with this frustration...see article he wrote in PWK section at: www.hifilit.com ------------------ I can now receive private messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 it is a SEARS Silvertone. Ever used one of these? ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 i was referring to that the book did not have a section dedicated to PWK's preferred listening setups. ok, it plays sound, like the speaker puts out sound, but the reels don't turn. my dad has another one in the attic, this one is black and weighs like 200 lbs haha, so small yet so heavy. the fan does not turn on... i am gonna let it warm up for a while... it has been 20 years since it was turned on so a warm up is understandbale right? you can see the tube. it is glowing orange/red ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 ok, it was on for a while now... started making this high pitched thrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr noise, like a cricket but constant. it has heat comin goff of it... is that normal? i unplugged it JUST incase. ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 Hard to tell which "it" you are referring to. Of course, heat is always an issue with VT equipment. However, sound without reels turning is definitely not a good thing. My first piece of gear capable of music repro was a Sears SS mono RR for which I paid 75.00. Put a "Cathedral Sound" spring reverb speaker on the external speaker output and "STEREO!" Hey, I've always had to make do on a budget... So what kind is the 200 pounder? Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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