flatgrass Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I decided to replace the barrier connectors on my H-I with 5-way binding posts. Pretty straight forward as I got the first speaker completed. Hooked it up and...nothing. Checked on connections and settings and everything seemed fine. Opened the speaker back up and discovered I had allowed the solder tabs to touch when I had tighted up the posts. Separated them, closed up the back, and everything seemed in order. Sat back and enjoyed tunes. Until...I queued up Get Back. Paul's rolling bass line sounded terrible. The woofer was sandy, crackling, distorted, and many other adjectives. So, I played other bass prominent tracks and the same thing. So I am wondering, did putting power to the speaker while the binding posts were touching damage the voice coil on the woofer, or did it damage the crossover? Just trying to determine what order I should consider a new woofer, or a new crossover? Insight and advise appreciated. Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brac Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I would expect that to damage the amp, shouldn't have hurt the speaker.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Difficult to tell about the amp. I can only suggest testing with another pair of speakers. Regarding the speakers. BTW, do they both have this problem? Do you have only one H1? If you did any sort of work on the cross overs or connections thereto, you should check them. In any case, you should snug down the screw connections for all wires in and out of the board.. My prime suspicion is that in doing the work, you wound up compromising the air seal for the box. It must be air-tight to work properly. What you might be hearing is the the woofer bottoming out for lack of the spring effect of a closed box. Do check for any loose screws mounting the tweeter, midrange, and woofer while you're in there. Air leaks can occur around the units. There is probably some sort of gasket material to seal the back of the box to the rest of the box. You might have compromised this and the gasket material should be replaced. Finallly, and somewhat equally likely, is the mounting box / cup for the new five-way binding posts. This must be air-tight too. Leaks can occur around the edges or even the holes where the electrical connections pass through. Let us know. WMcD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatgrass Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 Will (WFGMD), No, it is just the single speaker. They are heresy I, so plywood back. Pilot holes, then pulling through and snugging down by securing the nut. I did the first speaker and tried it before I did anything to the second. That was when I determined the solder tabs were touching. Made sure not to do that on the second. One of the other things I had done along with this was applying 1/8 inch gasket seal while I had the backs off, so I feel pretty good that there was no major leaks. Also, when I went back in because I was getting no sound the first time, I checked all connections, security of horns/woofers to the motorboard and such before I realized what was causing the problem. Swapping the channels, the problem followed the speaker. Does not present same problem when swapping out a different set of speakers. I hate to start buying replacement pieces in a semi-blind manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I decided to replace the barrier connectors on my H-I with 5-way binding posts. Pretty straight forward as I got the first speaker completed. Hooked it up and...nothing. Checked on connections and settings and everything seemed fine. Opened the speaker back up and discovered I had allowed the solder tabs to touch when I had tighted up the posts. Separated them, closed up the back, and everything seemed in order. Sat back and enjoyed tunes. Until...I queued up Get Back. Paul's rolling bass line sounded terrible. The woofer was sandy, crackling, distorted, and many other adjectives. So, I played other bass prominent tracks and the same thing. So I am wondering, did putting power to the speaker while the binding posts were touching damage the voice coil on the woofer, or did it damage the crossover? Just trying to determine what order I should consider a new woofer, or a new crossover? Insight and advise appreciated. Kevin Sandy and crackling sounds like either a loose connection or a voice coil rubbing, IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatgrass Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 That was my first inclination. What can cause a voice coil to malfunction? Again, my adjectives may not be the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 That was my first inclination. What can cause a voice coil to malfunction? Again, my adjectives may not be the best. Well, here is what can cause that... Back when I worked at Klipsch, I lived for awhile on a gravel county road south of Emmett, and the little frame house I lived in was not tight enough to keep the dust out...dust was always a major hassle there in that house on that road! I had to cover everything electronic when I wasn't using it. Anyway, one Saturday morning I was listening to my relatively new Heresys, and I could hear some kind of scratchy sound coming from one of them...so I turned up the music some and I could REALLY hear it! It was coming from one of the woofers, it seemed. The day was bright and sunny and the rays came through the window and I could see the dust in the air in the light at the front of the speaker, so I got up close and saw dust pumping in and out of the voice coil thru a seam around the edge of the voice coil dust cover...so I thought "AHA...rubbing voice coil...crappy seal on the dust cover!" (HINT! HINT!) Anyway, I took the speaker to work early on Monday morning, and went over to final assemby before I clocked in and Gwin and Mr. Bradford were there...I told Gwin that I had a rubbing voicecoil and needed a new woofer. She looked at me like I was crazy, since my speakers weren't very old, but Mr. Bradford took it into the testing booth and came back out and said..."Yep, rubbing voicecoil...sounds like somebody is sanding and oak board cross-grained in that voicecoil. Leave it here, and bring your other one in and I'll match up a pair of identical woofers for them, and Gwin can put 'em in for you." So, I went to work, and Gwin hunted me down at lunch and told me Mr. Bradford had a really nice pair of Industrial woofers that tested out above specs for home speaker response, but could still pump the decibels out...and would I rather have those in my Heresys...I said...SURE! Then she told me her idea to put industrial motorboards in the speakers while they were at her bench...she said they would look cool with the black metal grilles in them...I liked the idea because I had this three-footed cat I let stay in the house at night, and he was getting pretty curious about those woofers moving back and forth and he had already ruined the couch with his sharp claws...so I said, DO IT! So the next day, I brought in the other speaker, and Mr. Bradford said he would need to wait til the next day to get them back to me. So, on Wednesday afternoon they were done and ready for me to pick up. Gwin told me that Mr. Bradford had tweaked a pair of new crossovers for me because he wanted the speakers to be special...and that is why they hadn't been repaired the day before. I don't know anything about crossover networks, so I never asked what he did, I just enjoy listening to them! And that is how my speakers got to look like they do! Anyway, I digressed bigtime, huh? OK...back to your issue...look at the woofer voice coil dust cover, really closely...is there a break in the edge of the seam anywhere? It can happen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidF Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Excessive heat will deform the former, causing an out of condition. Still enough clearance to move with signal changes but some of the coil will rub and catch on metal outside the gap. More power still can cause the coil wire to just blow like a light bulb filament. Shorting the input terminals could cause a burst of DC current to pass through, or drop to very low resistance, but like mentioned above the first thing that may blow is the amp, or the amp fuses. I would also try bypassing the xover and connect the woofer directly to the amp output just to eliminate a bad xover circuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatgrass Posted October 26, 2012 Author Share Posted October 26, 2012 Builder -- Why exactly do you need a fire extinguisher in such close proximity to your speakers?? Well, the weekend is here so it looks like I am opening the heresy up and really digging around. DavidF, not sure how to bypass the xover. Just bare wire lead from the amp to the woofer terminals? Will take a close look at the dust cover, but these are pretty low hour K-22s. Am substituting Kg-1s and RB-5s in the meantime. Thanks for the ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Builder -- Why exactly do you need a fire extinguisher in such close proximity to your speakers?? Man, can't you see the flames all over them? GEEZ! Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidF Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 Sorry, yes, connect the amp output directly to the woofer. This will take the xover out of the circuit. This may not the answer but just to be sure the xover is not the culprit, here. Always careful not to cross those speaker wires, as you have already determined. Builder -- Why exactly do you need a fire extinguisher in such close proximity to your speakers?? Well, the weekend is here so it looks like I am opening the heresy up and really digging around. DavidF, not sure how to bypass the xover. Just bare wire lead from the amp to the woofer terminals? Will take a close look at the dust cover, but these are pretty low hour K-22s. Am substituting Kg-1s and RB-5s in the meantime. Thanks for the ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Morbius Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 Wow.................. you really learn a lot 'o stuff on these boards!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatgrass Posted October 28, 2012 Author Share Posted October 28, 2012 Well, turned on all the lights in the room, got a flashlight and took a good look at the dust cover. Seems nice and secure. Opened up the back, unhooked the woofer from the xover, and connected a lead right from the amp. Played Get Back, and same buzzing, distorting. Put a hand on the frame and got no sense of any vibration through it. Guess I am giving a call to parts on Monday to order a new woofer. Thanks for all the advice and help fellows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 No horsefly in the cabinet, then, huh? You must have slammed the hell outta voice coil or fried it when the short happened. No telling for sure, but that is the likely cause. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatgrass Posted October 28, 2012 Author Share Posted October 28, 2012 I don't know. I was hoping it was some bonehead thing I did that could be rectified, but I figure just bite bullet and buy a new one. Don't have the skill to redo the voice coil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidF Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 I know the feeling, well. Klipsch won't have a direct replacement. The model they suggest is different. To what extent I can't confirm but you really would need two to ensure matched response from both stereo pairs. Otherwise, you may need to shop on ebay etc for a used replacement for your particular driver from the H 1 series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatgrass Posted October 30, 2012 Author Share Posted October 30, 2012 You're right DavidF. Parts office says the recommended replacement is now the K-24 E. K-22s no longer in stock. I have read here that the K-24 is the least liked among the Heresy woofer models. But, I can't remember what modifications, if any, can be made to an Type E crossover to take the K-28. Guess I have some more research to do. Gotta check the specs on the Crites replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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