itsmyforte Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 has anyone heard(listen to) a Decware zen triode. i have never even heard a tube amplifier, but i am considering getting one of these because it has a 30 day moneyback guarantee if u don't like it. and if u have one of these i want details please! If u don't know what the hell i am talking about go here. www.decware.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregorius Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 SirJaylord, Do a search of this forum on "Decware" and you will find a lot of info on the Zen Amp. Regards, Greg ------------------ HK AVR20 II Toshiba DVD 32" Toshiba TV Odyssey Stratos 1976 LaScala's Front L&R KV-1 Center KG 1.5 Rear L&R KSW-12 Sub This message has been edited by Gregorius on 06-18-2002 at 02:31 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Hi SirJaylord, I have done some listening to the Decware Signature Zen Triode Mono Blocks model SV83M hooked up to my Khorns. I had tried several other higher powered tube amps when I got a pair of these. The 30 money back offer struck me as too good to pass up. I loved these amps. They sound was very very good, the best I had heard from tube gear. What I came to discover was they just didn't drive my Khorns loud enough for me. My listening room is ~14' x 22' and then amps ran out of steam at the low 90's dB range (as measured with a Rat Shack SPL meter at the listening spot ~17' from the speakers). Steve Deckert rates the amps at 3.6 wpc. I returned them after 28 days. I am currently using a pair of Welborne Labs Moondogs rated at ~2.5 wpc and I am extremely happy with them. I like the 2A3 tube sound better than the SV83 tube and the Moondogs blow the Zen's away power wise IMHO. What speakers do you have? You would really have to try the Zen's out in your home on your speakers listening to your music. Don't forget the "30 trial" has a 6.5% re-stocking fee + shipping both ways attached to it. ------------------ 2 Channel System: '78 Khorns w/ALK networks Welborne Labs Moondog 2A3 amps AES AE-3 Superpreamp DJH mods McIntosh MCD 7007 CD McIntosh MR-78 Tuner DIYCable Twisted Cross Connect Speaker Cable DIYCable Superlatives (preamp/amp) DH Labs Silver Pulse interconnects (sources/preamp) f> s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmyforte Posted June 18, 2002 Author Share Posted June 18, 2002 edster, you told me exactly what i wanted to know, i won't even bother calling them. i was afraid it would be wimpy in power so i shall keep on my search of something else to try. i currently have crap, for elecronics anyway. i have all klipsch home theatre setup which i never use cuz 2-channel is the only thing that i ever needed to be invented. Pioneer vsx something crap o' 5.1 receiver KLF-10 front ss-1 rear c7 center ksw-12 sub 4 ksb-2.1 2 pair of promedia 2.1 and a promedia 5.1 non of which i ever use cuz i hate computers, becaue i built them for it seems ever, lets see what else umm a couple homemade designs, some old pioneer stuff(70's)u know when it actually sounded good and a (garage unit) technics something 2 channel tuner/thingy for jam sessions in the garage when i need to get "away" i thought someone asked me what i had, if not i guess i typed for my own entertainment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Don't get me wrong...I love tube amps but they are not all created equal. Do as Gregorius suggested and do a search on the forum. There are others here that love the Decware amps and they go plenty loud enough for them. Your KLF's are not quite as efficient as the Khorns, you may want to look at a bit higher powered tube gear. Are you looking for 2 channel music or HT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 If I am not mistaken, he is really only considering the Basic Zen stereo amp, which is a far cry from the monoblocks, which are well over $1000. The little Zen stereo amp is not on the level of a well designed 2A3/300B offering in my opinion. It does not utilize true triode tubes and the output is actually under 2w. Edster is actually talking about quite a different beast with the Zen monoblocks. kh ------------------ Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Valhalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmyforte Posted June 18, 2002 Author Share Posted June 18, 2002 i follow both of you, i have know about that little beast for about 6 years, i just never thought about it until recently. i was just interested in tubes from a "what do they sound like compared to..." standpoint. Actually i am gonna get an Aragon 2002, i don't care about the klf-10's or my HT setup, i would just assume throw it in the trash. i am all about 2-channel setup, ummm imagine 2 khorns pushed with a 2002 at +130 db ah that would be utopia. i have heard the RF7's on a 2007 with a stage one up to an indicated +10 on the display in a closed room, oh my god it was loud!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Well, just because you dont go for the Decware Zen offering doesnt mean you throw the entire selection of tube amps out the window. I had an Aragon 4004 amp for a while back in the 80s and it was quite a beast. Yet, I would take any of the tube amps I have, some less than a quarter of the price of that amp, over the Aragon. Dont be so quick to judge all tube amps especially on highly efficient speakers. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 ummm imagine 2 khorns pushed with a 2002 at +130 db ah that would be utopia.At those levels, I don't think tubes are gonna matter much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 JayLord, I have tried relatively high powered SS amps with my Khorns. The sound produced by the 3.5 wpc Moondogs simply blows away any SS amp I have tried. My best luck with SS is the Monarchy SM-70's @ 25wpc (do a search on the forum for mobilehomeless' review of the SM-70!). If you are looking for a great 2 channel tube rig you might like to try a vintage integrated tube amp for starters...they are relatively inexpensive and sound great with Klipsch speakers. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmyforte Posted June 18, 2002 Author Share Posted June 18, 2002 i am not throwing out all tube amps because i heard one review of the "decware" but he confirmed for me about that one for sure what i expected. i would still like to hear a tube amp but i won't ever buy one unless i can obtain one that will yeild db levels of +130's or so like i know i can obtain with good SS electronics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 I think some of this discussion should involve the size of your room and how far away you sit from the speakers. With my RF7's, sitting 8 feet away -- I can get 100db at the listening postion with 15 tube watts. This is plenty loud enough for me. Before you throw those KLF-10's into the trash -- you might try an ultralinear offering like the Anthem Amp1 and Pre2L preamp combo. Both of which can be found on AudiogoN for less than $1000 together. 40 EL-34 tube watts which is very musical for the money, and sure to keep you satisfied for some time. Later, if you get speakers with higher sensitivity -- you can sell everything off and get the lower powered tube offerings. Loud is good, and I can certainly relate -- but 130db will leave you quite deaf. Also, 'loud' that sounds above average is not as good as fairly loud that sounds outstanding. ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25 * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * RF-7 Klipschcones® f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s> This message has been edited by deang on 06-18-2002 at 06:33 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Perhaps there needs to be some explanation that there is more to music reproduction than just LOUD. If LOUD is all you want, you have many options. Perhaps I will be the first to submit that the subtle distinctions between various tube topologies vs SS is going to be lost here. kh ------------------ Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Valhalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmyforte Posted June 18, 2002 Author Share Posted June 18, 2002 maybe i haven't explained myself well, about the klf-10's i would never throw them away(physically) what i meant is i could care less about the particicular HT setup i have which includes the klf-10's, they are very lovely speakers and i think they compete well with an RF-5. I just won't take them out of my HT for the reason that i would have to replace them with something else if i wanted to use them for stereo. also i would take the cleanest 15 watts in the world over a kilowatt any day for my daily listening, but the reason i compare everything to how loud i can get is when i am gonna really crank them,I REALLY WANNA CRANK THEM WHICH WOULD BE ALMOST EVERY DAY FOR ATLEAST 5 OR SO SONGS, YOU GET WHAT I AM SAYING, and my reason for wanting ss equiptment is i know i can have the best of both worlds for a "just getting starting stereo system". and i love aragon equiptment cuz i get to listen to it everyday. i would really like to hear a nice tube amp but like i said if can't achieve around 100 db with a couple watts then i really (in my opinion) can't catch the hard drum kick and wailing guitar riffs at an acceptable level. If everything else being perfect, out of 100% i would listen to volume levels on an average at 80%, so if i can't achieve that with a tube amp them i don't want to buy one. sorry for the long post, i am trying to convey the way i like to listen so others can lead me in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Long post? No need to worry on that issue. Many post lengthy posts in here; it's half expected on a serious topic. I would like to say that tube amps can get PLENTY volume and have smoother clipping characteristics than solid state amplification. I actually prefer rock with good tube amplification. It sounds more full, extended, alive, and real, just like tube amplification does with guitars. Tube amps KILL rock. 30w on a 100dB speaker can blow your doors off, my SirJlord! I prefer a good tube amp on rock ANY DAY. Perhaps not SET for full party levels, but a good Push pull tube amp kills most solid state brethren. You dont know what youre missing, Sire. kh ------------------ Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Valhalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Sounds like we have something in common. Oh yeah -- put the juice to 'em. With sensitivity ratings around 98db/watt you are going to want at least 40 tube watts. This will easily give you 100db or a little more at the listening position. Also, you should know that tube watts are not like solid state watts. As you crank up solid state it will begin to harden up on you, while well driven tube amps will just get louder without losing their sonic integrity. My AE-25 actually sounds its best if I take it right up to the point of clipping. Other things you might be interested in knowing is that tube amps have this uncanny ability of pushing the sound well past the front baffle of the speaker. The sound is all enveloping and textured. Solid state sound is just 'there'. There just seems to be 'more' of everything with tubes that makes it very difficult to go back to solid state once you have experienced it. ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25 * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * RF-7 Klipschcones® f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s> This message has been edited by deang on 06-18-2002 at 11:26 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted June 19, 2002 Share Posted June 19, 2002 AS MH indicated I think that push pull may be your answer if you want to go tubes. I have a pair of push pull KT88 monoblocks (about 45 to 50 wpc). I do all my listening at 70-90 db (at the listening position) but we did try my amps out on a pair of RF3's and the volume went sky high. I didn't have an spl meter with me at the time but I would guess that we hit something over 110 db at the listening position. Actually it was more like 95 db at my listening position but that was because I ran into the garden to protect my ears. Are you sure you want to do this to yourself. The levels you are talking about WILL cause permanent hearing damage - especially if you do this on a dialy basis! ------------------ My System: http://aca.gr/pop_maxg.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 19, 2002 Share Posted June 19, 2002 I'm not sure why deang needs 40 tube watts to achieve 100 db at his listening position my 20 Watt amps do that with ease on my 96 db Heresy's. In fact they can push them to 104-106 db without clipping. Maybe the newer tube amps aren't rated on the same scale as the vintage ?? Kind of like horse power rating scales have changes over the years with Cars . Craig ------------------ HH Scott 299 Amp HH Scott LT-110B Tuner HH Scott P-87 Turn Table JVC JL-F50 Turn Table Sony CDP-CA7ES CD Drive 1985 Walnut Heresey I W/Layne Audio Woofers KSW-15 Subs>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted June 19, 2002 Share Posted June 19, 2002 I can get 100dB's out of my Moondog/K-horn combo at my listening position... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 19, 2002 Share Posted June 19, 2002 edster, Hows that 2 channel setup coming along ?? still waiting to here how your 299 sounds on the Khorns Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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