History of a BIG Klipsch Horn

[ClaudeJ1]

Mark1101 A question about the woofers '' (4) KPT-MWM-S-LF (w/ Crites stamped "K33" type woofers)'', As these are 4ohm, measuring some 3.3ohm DCR, do you wire parallel [under 2ohms DCR] or series [above 6ohm DCR]?

I take it that the K33 would sound better in home use than the pro K43. thanks chris

I spoke at length with Gary Gillum, the co-patent holder of the MWM, former Chief Engineer with Klipsch. He told me they developed the original MWM was a double bin, USING K-33 Woofers. The reason they had Eminence do a K-43 for power handling and greater output because people were frying K-33's, even then, people still managed to fry K-43's because they used high amp fuses and the woofers would blow to protect the fuse, LOL.

They later split the bin in half and named it the MWMs (for single) because the roadies all bitched about how heavy it was (need 4 people to carry. Plus it woudn't fit though doorways narrower than 36" at small clubs. Whereas, two people can carry an MWMs.

As to the woofer impedance, even the original double and current production units (now used in only permanent installations, so no singles required) use separate connectors and fuses for each driver. Also, all pro amps can easily handle 2 ohm loads if the modern K-43's are in parallel.

When I had MWMs, I had both K-33 and K-43 woofers. The K-43 had slightly strong highs (higher BL product) while the K-33 went lower and had slightly stronger lows (lower BL product). Which is "better" depends on your application. If you use a midbass horn, like Mark does, the K-33 is better IMHO. But for PA applications, the K-43 is the one.

For home use, the K-33 is the better cheaper choice and Bob Crites drivers woofers well also. They are sonically indistinguishable from a K-33 in an MWM bin.

[ClaudeJ1]

Chicken or egg question. MWMs or MWM? I see the MWM is really two MWM singles, saving one plywood top or bottom. Singles if you move them every weekend and MWM for permanent installs.

Claude if we have good corners what happens if you build the center box {woofer chamber and shorthorn] and point it into the corner? chris

This is exactly what Klipsch did originally. Gary Gillum told me that Paul wanted to try just the double core units (my name for it) alone for PA with mutual coupling and stakcing the short units together and it didn't work. They tried firing it into a corner, it didn't work. When it was firing into the corner, they took a sheet of plywood and laid it on top, and VOILA, the thing pegged the meter, so to speak.

So yes, it will work that way, you just have to put sheet of plywood on top of it, which is how they arrived at the MWM originally! Paul wanted a bass horn that was easier to build than a Khorn and they ended making (arguably) the best horn woofer they ever made and it didn't need a corner anymore for PA or theater applications. Gary Gillum left Klipsch and built lots of MWM bins for John Allen's HPS-4000 systems.Gary told me that when they set up the MWM at shows, it was deemed the best sounding bass anyone had ever heard. He still claims this is the case as of 4 years ago when I spoke to him.

I'm essentially going to do the same thing, except, my cutoof frequency will be, by design, 20 Hz. higher ( 4.5 foot horn instead of 6 for the MWMs) I have the benefit of modeling it in Hornresp software first. Save time, money, and sawdust!

Plus, if I ever want to keep the core, and make a full blown MWMs, I will have that option in the future. Since Klipsch no longer makes MWMs units, you have to find used ones (very rare) or make your own, as many on this board have done.

[dtel]

Mark1101 A question about the woofers '' (4) KPT-MWM-S-LF (w/ Crites stamped "K33" type woofers)'', As these are 4ohm, measuring some 3.3ohm DCR, do you wire parallel [under 2ohms DCR] or series [above 6ohm DCR]?

I take it that the K33 would sound better in home use than the pro K43. thanks chris

That's exactly what I did, 4 singles bins and (Crites stamped K33 type) and in series.

I use 2 original Klipsch singles with K 43's for outside but there never together so I don't know about any sound difference. I do remember Claude did test a few different drivers when he had MWM bins and thought the original K33 or the cast Crites drivers sounded best to him for the way we use them, low power compared to what they were designed for.

One thing about the cast drivers, they don't fit [] but all you need to do is shave a tiny bit off the outside frame on the top and bottom to make them work, not a big deal really, just a little unusual, but you kind of have to be to have these inside anyway. []

[Axz Hout]

t

[ClaudeJ1]

just a little unusual, but you kind of have to be to have these inside anyway

Not at all. Most of us go thru life in the - should have, would have, could have group. Its good to know there is a - did it, done it group!! chris

What Dtel forgot to mention was that Mrs. Dtel and daughter were the fuel for him building these. How cool is it when the ladies of the house want Daddy to build a stack of MWMs woofers for the living room! Hats off to the ladies who, I'm sure, had the same look on their face as I did upon hearing the MWM for the first time!

It's pretty rare in the audio world to have that kind of female support for the big horns, especially those that use so much corner space in a house vs. a Jubille or Khorn bin.

[dtel]

female support

It's really my favorite kind.

But what Claude said is true, and that was the same day your talking about the first time they heard them, and i didn't complain even once at there idea of wanting them. I may look stupid..........

[ClaudeJ1]

I have never heard anything manufactured by Klipsch that comes close to the current MCM-3 or 4. The Jubilee is about the most similar but is just not up to the sheer size of what the MCMs can do.

Edit: I have not heard Roy's latest Pro creations that are being used in teh Klipsch Music Center. Those look like some real powerhouses and probably do eclipse the older MCMs.

Roy is definitely a prolific horn designer of the highers order. The Jubille behaves like a LaScala out of a corner, and like a Khorn in a corner, except with higher output between 60-200 hz.. In the same way that Gary Gillum did much of the grunt work on the MWM, Roy did the same with the Jubilee. His idea of splaying the twin horn mouths inward is what gave the Jubilee the ability to go over 1Khz. and made possible a passive 2-way at 800 hz. with a 1.5" driver on a small horn. I still like his amazing K-402 best whether it's 2-way at 500 Hz Xover, 3-way at 400 Hz. Xover, or sitting on top of an MWM stack!!

[Axz Hout]

h

[dtel]

Well it looks like the back of the MWM cabinet is slighlty wider that the Khorn so it would stick out another 30 inches and close to 6 ft wide.

Also with the angles is does not sit well in a corner, although if it did it usually would not be pointing in the desired direction. That's part of the Khorns problem being they fit perfectly in a corner without a wide room they rarely point in the perfect direction, well they are more dependant or room size and shape anyway.

Does it the mighty Motengator perform the match test? At moderate levels a lit match will blow out held in the mouth of the Klipschorn , with the proper music, of course! chris

? I have no idea, but would think it would not, only because there is not much or any real compression with the size of the openings. (complete guess) No telling but maby with alot of power, bit I would not want to be the one holding the match that close with full power

[ClaudeJ1]

Well it looks like the back of the MWM cabinet is slighlty wider that the Khorn so it would stick out another 30 inches and close to 6 ft wide.

Does it the mighty Motengator perform the match test? At moderate levels a lit match will blow out held in the mouth of the Klipschorn , with the proper music, of course! chris

It's been a standard test for the MWM for years, but you have to play it "stupid loud" to do it. Maybe digital cannons? K33 will handle it fine.

[Axz Hout]

y

[Axz Hout]

y

[dtel]

Some forum members may not know what the 1900 looks like so here is a pix. chris

That pic and this one is what made me want to use Oak for the bass bins, I liked the way they looked in wood grain.

[Axz Hout]

h

[dtel]

I am, it's the best sound I have ever had, and after 35+ year of looking, I am done.

[Axz Hout]

u

[Axz Hout]

h

[ClaudeJ1]

http://community.klipsch.com/forums/storage/6/1905579/CJstack1010.jpg

This is one of my versions. By going to FH-1 AND, more importantly, the EVM 15L which has a much better response than any of the MWM drivers in the 100-400 hz. range. I and added the K402, which gets to 300 Hz easily with the K-1133 driver I dropped the stack down, but I had the EQ the FH-1 like I would a LaScala at the lower end. This allowed me to sell the excellent Peavey MB-1 Midbass to another forum member with more space. Now that I have space again, I want MWM bass back so I will build my corner version, which is about 3/4 size.

[Axz Hout]

h

[dtel]

Claude, that setup looks mean, it could hurt you if your not careful.

Since there is no pic's yet of the MWM 402 here goes............ignore the other speakers, the Cornwall's are now in the bedroom and the forte is on top a MWM to the left now.