HaeSuse Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I have a set of Synergy F3s that I've been rocking since '05. Just today, I blew one of the tractrix horns in one of them. Does Klipsch sell OEM replacement parts? Does anyone? What about after market parts? I don't have the money to replace the whole speaker set at this point, and am just looking for a patch to a problem. The crackle coming out of the thing is insanely loud. Any help Klipsch Community? Thanks in advance, HaeSuse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Contact Klipsch, I would think they would have a replacement. By replacing the tractrix horn it wouldn't be a band aide but a permanent fix. If they don't carry it then we will have to source out a aftermarket part. 1-800-554-7724 Good luck, let us know what they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaeSuse Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share Posted February 15, 2013 Indeed they did. In stock, also. $24. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaeSuse Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share Posted February 15, 2013 Update question: Will I possibly do any damage to the speaker by just disconnecting the wires to the existing/broken tweeter/horn, while I wait on my delivery of the new one? It sounds so incredibly awful that I can't listen to anything, right now. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaeSuse Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share Posted February 15, 2013 Sorry to bump, but bump. Anyone know if I could cause any damage by disconnecting the tractrix horn, but leaving the speaker attached, and in operation? I know precisely zero about electrical engineering. Thanks guys, Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Running a crossover higher than first order (6dB) will cause damage to the network. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I agree with djk, of course. I don't know if there is a second order (or higher) crossover in there, though. In any event, I suggest you play it safe and not run the unit until the replacement is made. WMcD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Hi, Gil! Just idle curiosity: How would running a speaker without a driver or horn damage the crossover? That one surprised me. You probably noticed a few months ago that I posted on a group concert I organized and Gary and Marty will attend; -- Brahms's 4th at Strathmore in Bethesda on May 4. Sadly, I can't get the prime viewing seats I used to, so now they're just good seats in the "orchestra" (main floor) section of the hall. I'm glad you're still around and keep your eye out for good posts to respond to. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Dead short to ground at its resonant frequency. If crossover has an electrolytic cap it goes open, if it has a fim cap the inductor burns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaeSuse Posted February 16, 2013 Author Share Posted February 16, 2013 Don't run it at all? Or run it, but don't disconnect the horn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I'm saying to not use the speaker box at all. It is being cautious, but you will not have to worry about it. WMcD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Hi Larry. I really do hope to visit you in May, but can't promise anything right now. I'll watch for a low fare to D.C. As far as the crossover and further to DJK, below are some diagrams. We can see that second order crossovers are actually a series L-C circuit with the speaker ® wired across either the L or the C. If the speaker is removed in some way, e.g. because the voice coil is burned out, then there just remains the L-C circuit. At resonance its impedance goes down to zero or nearly so (depending on the slight internal resistance of the L and C). Then there is a lot of current through the L and the C and one of them fails. IIRC that dip in impedance due to the resonance is at about the cross over frequency. The diagram shows the Zin of the two filters with the driver resistance attached. You can see that at the freqs where the filter is not letting power through, the Zin is growning high. This is to say that the filter keeps frequencies out by not absorbing them in the first place (impedance Z is high and little current flows). In the flat area the input impedance is about equal to R. You'll notice that the Zin is roughly the inverse of the power output of each filter (which is not shown). Also, we usually wire the inputs to the filters in parallel. So, if we have an 8 ohm tweeter and an 8 ohm woofer, why is the parallel load not 4 ohms? The Zin's answer this. The low pass has a high impedance where the high pass has low impedance --- and the high pass has high impedance where the low pass has a low impedance. Therefore, when these are in paralled, they work out to just R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFord Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Dead short to ground at its resonant frequency. If crossover has an electrolytic cap it goes open, if it has a fim cap the inductor burns. Is this a "real" problem? Don't people blow tweeters all the time with no apparent damage to the crossover when the tweeter is replaced? Seems odd that a bad tweeter would crackle loudly, instead of poof, with no sound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 "Is this a "real" problem? Don't people blow tweeters all the time with no apparent damage to the crossover when the tweeter is replaced?" Real? Why do you think I mentioned it? Go ahead and make my day, I get paid by the hour, and the customer pays for the parts too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 lol. I love it when people pee in your cheerios. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I believe it is a real problem or at least a real dangers. IIRC a few people here have reported burned out crossovers and there are reports from others too -- though some are from the world of high power PA systems. There seem to be situations, if rare, when the train wreck (my term) is that the driver and crossover are burned out and maybe the amp fails or goes into protection mode. One explanation is that the driver blew, then a second order crossover presented the short circuit as described above, and then it blew. Somewhere in the mix the amp may have been affected by the short. The possibilty is real and makes sense in terms of electrical engineering. Again it was one of our moderators who described this danger many years ago. I think it is difficult to predict how a given amp will react to a bad load or exactly the sequence of events. It is also very true that most failure of tweeters are simply the voice coil burning out. Replacing the whole horn / driver or just the diaphragm is ofter the solution. In some cases the voice coil former and windings distort from heat and bind in the magnet gap. But perhaps this binding lets loose from time to time and you get the crackle. I've have not run into it but my experience is limited. I'll also point out that woofers can make some very odd noises quite unlike what you'd expect from a woofer when it is hit with very low freqs at high levels. Lastly, it could be that your amp has some problem which is generating the crackling. You might check it with a cheap set of speakers or even some headphones. All of the above can't really be diagnosed by our conversation here. It takes some study on the spot. At least you should examine the crossover component for signs of heating. So, as you can imagine, the safe bet is to not run this equipment, or only at very low levels, while it is making odd noises. WMcD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Ya know, trouble shooting and many other studies have the problem of "issue recognition." If you don't recognize the issue, things can go bad. Little twin brothers wake up one morning and have a conversation. They decide they're old enough to cuss. One decides, "I'll say "hell"". The other decides, "I'll say "***."" So they go downstairs to breakfast. Mom asks, "What cereal would you like?" One brother pipes up and says, "What the hell mom, I have Cheerios." Mom is so upset by the vulgarity that she slaps him. Then she turns to the other brother and asks, "And what would you like for breakfast?" He says, not understanding but worried, "I don't know mom, but you can bet your *** it's not gonna be Cheerios." Smile (since Cheerios were mentioned in a vulgar way in a post above), WMcD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Had an install with four Heresy 1.5s, got a call about two speakers dead. One woofer is open, the cap in parallel with the woofer has exploded (from the woofer being open), the channel of the amplifier is fried (from seing a short). Big, big repair bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Had an install with four Heresy 1.5s, got a call about two speakers dead. One woofer is open, the cap in parallel with the woofer has exploded (from the woofer being open), the channel of the amplifier is fried (from seing a short). Big, big repair bill. If I am not mistaken, what everyone is trying to say. DON'T RUN IT AT ALL, wait until you get a new horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFord Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Nah, don't be a chicken, shoot the juice to it and lets see what happens. The nice thing about shorts is that with sufficient power they turn into opens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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