KT66 Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Has any one got the EV spec sheet for these discontinued drivers? The EV wed site does have a link to discontinued products http://www.electrovoice.com/downloads.php?fam=204&title=Drivers&d=1 but you need the EV part number for a search. Bob Crites kindly replied stating they were 16 ohm and obviously must have a sensitivity > 104dB probably 108 judging by the -4dB setting on the T4A transformer. There are a few 2" drivers suggested like the BMS, B&C Faital etc but have not read about a concensus on which one integrates best with the KHorn and Dave's elliptrac 400.There is another driver the Ciare I have not heard mentioned here though. http://oem.ciare.com/en/294/433/prodotti.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Several years ago the forum computer crashed and thus early posts were lost. Someone on the pre-crash forum reported the K-77M had an Electrovoice internal number of 1891 (IIRC). That makes some sense because it is a little higher number than those used on earlier drivers of the family. I don't see any specifications on the EV archive or the Internet.. If you find some information I'm sure we all would like to see it. WMcD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axz Hout Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Just in case you were not aware of this information. We have DJK to thank for making this information available. Best regards Moray James. EV model number is 1831-2074 Tidiaphragm which can be modified to fit a Klipsch K55M driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT66 Posted March 24, 2013 Author Share Posted March 24, 2013 Just in case you were not aware of this information. We have DJK to thank for making this information available. Best regards Moray James. EV model number is 1831-2074 Ti diaphragm which can be modified to fit a Klipsch K55M driver. yes, but niether of those numbers appear in the EV discontinued products listing. People have dsigned alternative crossovers for the K55 , k77 drivers so they must have this exact information yet it appears to be a mystery ... some say its 16, others suggest 13 ohm ( dc probably) and my own Spice simulation of the AK-3 xo suggests its is 8 ohms otherwise the mid response is underdamped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I never got the chance to have a set of K55M drivers so I never looked farther and I simply kept the info on file just in case I found a pair some day. You could check with Dennis (DJK) I expect that he can provide you with exact information. Please post back if you find more information. Thanks and best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Just in case you were not aware of this information. We have DJK to thank for making this information available. Best regards Moray James. EV model number is 1831-2074 Ti diaphragm which can be modified to fit a Klipsch K55M driver. yes, but niether of those numbers appear in the EV discontinued products listing. People have dsigned alternative crossovers for the K55 , k77 drivers so they must have this exact information yet it appears to be a mystery ... some say its 16, others suggest 13 ohm ( dc probably) and my own Spice simulation of the AK-3 xo suggests its is 8 ohms otherwise the mid response is underdamped. I can help you with impedance. I measured impedance vs frequency on a K-55M and a K-55V many years ago. I have attached that set of numbers. Bob Crites k55mimp.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axz Hout Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 There is a consensus, you just need context. The B&C works, but you need a steeper filter -- at least 24db/octave The BMS goes lower than the others without much difficulty because of its fabric diaphragm, and you can go first order if you don't push it to insane levels, though 12db/octave is probably best. No extension, so must be used with a tweeter. The HF200 goes low enough and out far enough to be used as a two-way, preferably with a 12dB/octave filter. Can also be used with a tweeter if one prefers. I think everyone would agree (consensus), that the above statements are reasonably accurate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT66 Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 Just in case you were not aware of this information. We have DJK to thank for making this information available. Best regards Moray James. EV model number is 1831-2074 Ti diaphragm which can be modified to fit a Klipsch K55M driver. yes, but niether of those numbers appear in the EV discontinued products listing. People have dsigned alternative crossovers for the K55 , k77 drivers so they must have this exact information yet it appears to be a mystery ... some say its 16, others suggest 13 ohm ( dc probably) and my own Spice simulation of the AK-3 xo suggests its is 8 ohms otherwise the mid response is underdamped. I can help you with impedance. I measured impedance vs frequency on a K-55M and a K-55V many years ago. I have attached that set of numbers. Bob Crites Thanks Bob useful figures In selecting a replacement driver B&C, BMS etc what was the impedance of choice then 16ohm? btw what is the k77 impedance have you measured those? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 People have designed alternative crossovers for the K55 , k77 drivers so they must have this exact information yet it appears to be a mystery It's not a mystery. We know we are dealing with a crossover point of 400Hz, a 16 ohm driver, and 3dB of attenuation. When you drop a tap on the autoformer, the reflected impedance doubles. You can now use just about any online crossover calculator to play with the numbers: when you plug in 30 ohms with the 400Hz crossover point , you get the 13uF capacitor value that Klipsch uses. Most of us just use the 15 ohm figure because that's what the math says it should be, and well -- that's what PWK based it on. The very old tweeters were 16 ohm, but what we normally see are 8 ohm. For the advertised 6kHz crossover point, the numbers give us a 3.3uF capacitor value for a first order filter, but that's not what we see -- we see a 2uF. The calculators assume a parallel filter, but notice that on the old filters that the tweeter leg actually hangs off of the primary cap instead of being attached to input. Everything runs through the 13uF cap first. I believe with the single 2uF cap, the 3dB down point is 9kHz . The AA is Chebychev in type, and I think that one is -3dB at 4.7kHz, but when you add in ripple I think it's 21dB/octave below that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT66 Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 People have designed alternative crossovers for the K55 , k77 drivers so they must have this exact information yet it appears to be a mystery It's not a mystery. We know we are dealing with a crossover point of 400Hz, a 16 ohm driver, and 3dB of attenuation. When you drop a tap on the autoformer, the reflected impedance doubles. You can now use just about any online crossover calculator to play with the numbers: when you plug in 30 ohms with the 400Hz crossover point , you get the 13uF capacitor value that Klipsch uses. Most of us just use the 15 ohm figure because that's what the math says it should be, and well -- that's what PWK based it on. The very old tweeters were 16 ohm, but what we normally see are 8 ohm. For the advertised 6kHz crossover point, the numbers give us a 3.3uF capacitor value for a first order filter, but that's not what we see -- we see a 2uF. The calculators assume a parallel filter, but notice that on the old filters that the tweeter leg actually hangs off of the primary cap instead of being attached to input. Everything runs through the 13uF cap first. I believe with the single 2uF cap, the 3dB down point is 9kHz . The AA is Chebychev in type, and I think that one is -3dB at 4.7kHz, but when you add in ripple I think it's 21dB/octave below that point. The above is fine but I'm an AK3 user a 12 & 18 dB design.The T4A autotransformer in the AK3 is -4dB not -3dB ... from what I've been led to believe , I've done quite a bit of simulation of the AK3 on Spice and Matlab but of course one thing is using a nominal 15ohm for the driver an other is using (actual) say Bob Crites values which posted in this or adjacent thread - which average about 11 ohm. I've even augmented (simulated only) the AK3 mid to insert an 2nd order Butterworth response roll off at 6K. All this is staright forward - so I could hang on a 16 ohm DCM50 while leaving the woofer and tweeter nets lone. But of course the -4dB would remain put, no flexibility in that respect. Of course Al would have kittens with all this because its not ' constant impedance' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I think you might have been the person Bob and myself were talking about on the phone the other day. I believe Bob said the HF200 would work with Dave's horn and the AK-3 without having to make any adjustments in attenuation. Why are you leaning towards the DCM50? I would be more concerned with a balanced output as opposed to a constant impedance -- unless your amp is a zero feedback design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT66 Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 No wasn't not me on phone. Just leaning not decided. Keeping the ak3 is a definite option, will use elliptrac that way at first with 1" adaptor with k55m, later i will decide what 2" driver this is what a local dealer said: The faital Pro HF200 is only 96dB at 450hz and ‘spikey’ DCM50 is 108dB easily adjusted with right -4 or -6db tap on 3619. The 4592 needs a much bigger step down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 "EV model number is 1831-2074 Ti diaphragm which can be modified to fit a Klipsch K55M driver." I think if you go back and check, you will find that the Titanium was to replace the diaphragm in the CF3, CF4 series drivers, not the K55M. They are quite differently constructed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Thank you for the information DJK. I had been under the impression the diaphragms could be exchanged. I will correct the information I have saved on this, I appologise fo the error. Best regards <oray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Dennis I went and searched for a while but did not find the post which I had cut and saved from initially but I did find this from a post of yours "Contact Bob Crites (BEC) and see if he can put an EV DH2A diaphragm in for you, it's not a simple drop-in. It should be the latest version diaphragm, the 1.5mil, not the older 2mil." So I wanted to check with you, is the part number # 1831-2074 the part number for the diaphragm of the EV DH2A driver? Is this the only one (diaphragm) suitable to install into a K63KN motor used in the CF3 and CF4? Thanks for the help just want to get this straight and make a record of it for future reference. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/STARINMANUALS/Bosch%20-%20EV/DH2A,%20DH2A16.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Dean thank you for that data sheet I did not have it. Is this a confirmation that this is the diaphragm to get for a CF3/4? Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Not my area expertise Moray - we will need to wait for Bob or Dennis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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