absolve2525 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Has anyone tried the combination, with very low power? Am I pretty much guaranteed to burn up the voice coils if I try? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 I would say yes.....ask Bob to make sure. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 I would say yes.....ask Bob to make sure. Rick Yes to the combo, or yes to frying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Bob has done some listening with this combination and didn't damage the K77. it's just not recommended. probably with low power it would be fine. Klipsch uses the 4500 crossover point for K77 in the current Khorn and LaScala, but uses a 6th order crossover, which i understand (actually i don't have a clue) provides better protection for the K77 than the type A @4500hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absolve2525 Posted August 6, 2013 Author Share Posted August 6, 2013 Thanks for the input. I'll find out soon enough! I have some A/4500 on the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absolve2525 Posted August 7, 2013 Author Share Posted August 7, 2013 Well, one crossover is now installed! So far, so good. No tweeter distortion, after brief testing. I have to stick it back in the corner, but sounds smooth. I'm not sure if I have to adjust the autoformer, since the K77M is different than a Crites tweeter obviously. I don't know for sure what tap goes to what wire yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absolve2525 Posted August 8, 2013 Author Share Posted August 8, 2013 I have been doing some more listening, and the sound is way too bright with the new crossovers. I have to cut the treble on my preamp. Does anyone know how to adjust levels on the autoformer? I guess I'll definitely have to get Crites tweeters for proper balance lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 "Klipsch uses the 4500 crossover point for K77 in the current Khorn and LaScala, but uses a 6th order crossover, which ... provides better protection for the K77 than the Type A @4500hz." Hi Dee -- I'm nitpicking here, but when you change and add parts, fundamentally changing what the network does -- it's not a "Type A" anymore. At any rate, steeper slopes reduce the amount of total energy going to the driver leading up to and near the transition points: "Low frequencies will damage tweeters. Using a second order (12 dB per octave) or third order (18 dB per octave) high pass filter will reduce the lower frequencies at a steeper rate than a first order filter. A tweeter with a third order high pass filter with a crossover frequency of 5000 Hz driven by the 100 watt amplifier...will recieve about 1.6 watts at 2500 Hz versus 25 watts with a first order filter at full output." Absolve -- The tweeters on the networks for the big Heritage stuff are unattenuated, they are run full out -- I suppose you could move the tweeter down to tap 4, along with the squawker, but that would be a 3dB drop, which might be too much. I did this once for a short period of time, so I know it works, but to be honest, I don't know the full ramifications of hanging two drivers off of the same tap. You can also visit www.alkeng.com and consider purchasing a pair of Al's tweeter attenuators. He has two versions: adjustable L-pad type and transformer type (recommended). You can use them without making any other changes to the crossover, which is nice. I recommend that anyone planning on playing around with different tweeters to invest in a good pair of attenuators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absolve2525 Posted August 8, 2013 Author Share Posted August 8, 2013 Thanks for the info! I'm not sure what tap goes where on the 3654 transformers. I was looking for a manual or data sheet, but I didn't see one for these specifically. I'm really enjoying the sound now, much smoother for extending listening periods and better intelligibility. I'll have to email Bob about adjusting the levels, but it's certainly an improvement over the AK2. Those stock caps in the bass bin crossover are huge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Right Dean. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Sorry Dee, am I being a "curmudgeon" again? Sorry bro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 The 3654 is a beefier version of the original Klipsch T2A. Tap 5 is the input tap. There is 13mfd capacitor sitting between input positive (from the amplifier) and Tap 5. Also attached to Tap 5 is a 4mfd capacitor which connects to Tweeter + on the terminal strip. Tap 5 provides for no attenuation (it's an "input tap"). Now we're left with the output taps. Each remaining tap provides for 3dB of attenuation. So, Tap 4 is -3dB, Tap 3 is -6dB, Tap 2 is -9dB, and Tap 1 is -12dB. There are no other in-between settings unless you go to a different autotransformer (3636 or 3619-ET), or another option with your existing units that would require a redesign. I'm going to assume that you disconnected or removed the parts for the AK-2 low pass section in the bass bin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absolve2525 Posted August 8, 2013 Author Share Posted August 8, 2013 Great info, thanks Dean! I did disconnect the crossover components inside the bass bin, but left the fuse connected to the woofer. I did not reconnect the tweeter/mid fuse, since it's placement makes that difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absolve2525 Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 Just to make sure, when I'm switching output taps on the 3654, I'm only adjusting midrange level? The tweeter level remains the same? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 You're going to hate me - but changing the midrange level will change the crossover point. Hey, that's cheating, I thought we were talking about tweeters. Don't mess with the midrange, I'll explain later (no time right this minute). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) Duplicate post Edited April 28, 2014 by DeanG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absolve2525 Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 I did mean tweeter level lol. It's too hot. Perhaps an lpad is the answer afterall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I just want to make sure we're on the same page here: You're using Bob's A/4500 crossovers, but you've decided you like the sound of the K-77's better -- but they're too hot. Is that right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheric Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 absolve2525, you have PM (on a different subject). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absolve2525 Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 To be somewhat specific, I have to turn down the region around 4000hz about 2db on the parametric eq built into my preamp. Not too drastic. I plan to try Crites tweeters a some point, but I was interested in trying the ol K77 first. It sounds very good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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