Tom Mobley Posted July 6, 2002 Share Posted July 6, 2002 1) If you are DIYing a pair of LS's to save money, do yourself a favor and just go buy some. Trust me on this. 2)The set of LS plans that were passed around here (the ones in German) have a severe flaw. If you build the upper front panel with the dimensions they give, you can't mount the midrange horn. They show the K-400 opening being just about 3/4" above the bottom edge of the panel. OK great. Looks good until you start trying to mount the horn. That 3/4" is all occupied by the panel that forms the roof of the bass bin, leaving no place for the 3/4" wide flange on the K-400 at all. The front panel sits in front of, not above, that roof panel. Tear it out, start over. The space between the bottom edge of the panel and the bottom of the cutout needs to be at least 1.5". With the tweeter horn needing to move down to get clearance for the magnet it gets really tight. The horns will touch or real close to it. Did you know you can buy a decent router for about $70 at Home Depot? What fun. Can somebody who owns a pair of LS's look in the back and see how much room there is between the horns? Also, if that somebody has the decorator models with no grilles, could you please measure the height of that front panel? Hopefully it's about 10.75". I won't go into how much I spent building a set of Al K. crossovers. Of course I started from scratch on that, didn't even own a soldering iron or know how to solder. My wife helped me with that, she's certified for surface mount construct/repair on guidance systems for nuclear ICBM's. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted July 6, 2002 Share Posted July 6, 2002 Tom, jeez, what a project. I remember HDBR's commentary on the steps to build "dog houses", or the bass bins for these babies. I've never had a LS, but I've had my Khorns and Belle in various states of disassembly, and I know what you're saying, it's really hard work. And I didn't even make any cuts. I don't solder (but would like to learn) but I let Al K build all my networks. Mine would have come out looking like a toddler's school project. ------------------ "Bullsh*t!" -PWK- --------------------- TWO-CHANNEL SYSTEM Eico HF-81 Eico HFT-90 New Tube 4000 CD Player 1976 Klipschorns (KCBR's & ALK'ed) HOME THEATER Klipsch 1968 ALK Cornwall "II"s (LF/RF) ALK Belle Klipsch (Center) Klipsch Heresy (RR/LR) Klipsch KSW-12 sub Sonic Frontiers Anthem AMP1 (driving Cornwalls) Sonic Frontiers Anthem AMP1 (driving Heresy's) Denon AVR-4800 Toshiba SD-3109 DVD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpgwagon Posted July 6, 2002 Share Posted July 6, 2002 Tom: The front panel is 10.75". There is about (it's really hard to get anything in there to measure) 1/4" between the flanges on the horns measured inside the cabinet. Look at the attached pic. (space.jpg). Hope this helps! ------------------ http://gallery.consumerreview.com/webcrossing/images/MYSTUFF.jpg This message has been edited by mpgwagon on 07-06-2002 at 10:31 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted July 6, 2002 Share Posted July 6, 2002 i just bought a book on it. if i get it soon enough i can mail you a copy if you want? it is a full book of it, not a few pics. ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted July 6, 2002 Author Share Posted July 6, 2002 Thanks mpgwagon, that's exactly what I needed. Great pic. Chris, I bought the empty boxes froma cabinet maker in Chicago, he had built several pair in the late eighties. He was "unable to get the horns from Klipsch" at the time so he built them with some round drivers mounted in round cutouts in the front panel. Before I bid on them I asked him if he would be willing to change out the panel, he was willing so I sent him the dimensions from the German plans. No good. Now I've yanked his and am attempting to build my own. I got a piece of 3/4 oak plywood and started. Now, I've been a car guy all my life, am a professional level racing engine builder, Certified Master Auto and Truck Tech, all that jazz. But I can tell you everything I know about working with wood in about 10 seconds. So it's kinda like America's Funniest Home Woodworking Videos while I try to teach myself to use this new router to cleanly make the new panels. Didn't help any that the first new router was defective. Also doesn't help have that disease called "perfectionism." Whattaloser. Jason, Sure I'd be glad to have anything you've got. I'm thinking about building a set from scratch after I get done with these. I'm a glutton for punishment. Let me know if I can send along some bucks for expenses. Here is my info: Tom Mobley 5534 W. Yucca St. Glendale, Az 85304 Tom This message has been edited by Tom Mobley on 07-06-2002 at 01:44 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted July 6, 2002 Share Posted July 6, 2002 Tom - I totally relate! Woodworking and I cannot be used in the same sentence together. Look at it this way - if the LS don't work out, at least you'll have a nice pair of ICBMs in case Bin Laden comes to visit! Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpgwagon Posted July 6, 2002 Share Posted July 6, 2002 I've been in the Spray Painting profession for 30 years. I can do class "A" paint on anything. I can cut a board 3 times and it's still to short! If you need more pics let me know. Good luck, we'll want pics when you're done. ------------------ http://gallery.consumerreview.com/webcrossing/images/MYSTUFF.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungkiman Posted July 6, 2002 Share Posted July 6, 2002 Tom, Front panel is 10 3/4" tall. Measured from inside the cabinet, it is 10" tall. Again, from inside the cabinet, bottom to top, I have 1" material before K400 cutout (5 1/2" tall), 1 1/4" material between cutouts, 1 13/16" tall tweeter cutout, and 7/16" material left on top. Good luck with your project. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted July 6, 2002 Author Share Posted July 6, 2002 Thanks for the assist guys. Mine is coming out just about like mungkimans'. Ahhhh, woodworking, the horror, the horror. Actually it's coming out pretty good, it's just so slow and I keep overrunning the corners. I could have built two 350's and a 454 in this amount of time. I'm using a B&D Workmate to hold the piece, a new Ryobi router with a 1" long x 1/4" straight bit, an old Stanley tape, a machinists straightedge and two C-clamps. I've now discovered that my tape measure gives almost 1/8" different measure inside and outside even though it has the loose hook that's supposed to compensate. I'll see what I can do about a few pics. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted July 6, 2002 Share Posted July 6, 2002 Tom, The plans are from Isophon and were distributed in the late 60s. Since Klipsch didn't sell drivers separately, the woofer, mid-range and tweeter combination was something other than the OEM hardware. Isophon made cone woofers and midrange horns, some with dimensions that would cover the opening. Also, the K-400 can be mounted *flange out* eliminating the pinch point completely, might need to break the corners of the opening with the new router. This message has been edited by John Warren on 07-06-2002 at 09:19 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted July 6, 2002 Author Share Posted July 6, 2002 Here's a few pics, I think. I'll do a couple more in another msg. Tom Well, try again. no pics. This message has been edited by Tom Mobley on 07-06-2002 at 11:27 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted July 6, 2002 Author Share Posted July 6, 2002 here's another couple, gotta get the car loaded for a camping trip like NOW. I don't know why my camera is turning some of these pictures blue. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted July 7, 2002 Share Posted July 7, 2002 Tom, E-mail me sometime...I can help you out on this. ------------------ I can now receive private messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted July 7, 2002 Share Posted July 7, 2002 For those of you DIY-types...I will soon begin building some oak LaScalas...with modifications to allow for hiding the veneer edges that show on standard factory models. I plan to photograph the entire operation with my camera as I progress through the project. I also am drawing up plans for this project. If there is interest, I may be able to put together some sort of booklet with "helpful hints", etc. and with the intent that even the most "inept woodworker" can build these, providing he/she has the time and patience to do it according to instructions I supply in the booklet. What do you think? Should I do this? I figure that I can put it all together...get some copies made at Kinko's and sell them for my cost...with maybe a small profit margin figured in!! Anybody game? I am also contemplating building up some "flush-front" style Cornwalls and Heresys...but out of oak plywood and with all mitered edges(including fronts)...I may include this in the booklet, too!! This project will be ready sometime this upcoming winter, I imagine. Is there any interest? ------------------ I can now receive private messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted July 7, 2002 Share Posted July 7, 2002 HDBR, I don't know if this is one of those things that sounds like a good idea but becomes hideously complex in the actual doing of it, but... When you start the La Scala project, can you think of any way to provide a "scale up scale down" converter - what I'm thinking of is, suppose I wanted to build something that looked exactly like a La Scala, but had a cutoff frequency of, say, 40 Hz instead of 55 or whatever it is. What would the dimensions be? Or, conversely, suppose I wanted to build a compact version that only went to 80 Hz. What would it look like? It seems this ought to be pretty straight forward to do in a spreadsheet format... at least, for someone who understands complex fluid dynamics, acoustics, horn loading, woodworking and spreadsheetology... Seriously, do you think that's something that's doable? I have a large room but no decent KHorn corners, and I'd LOVE to build a La Scala (El Scala?) that did everything the real La Scala does, only went, like, an octave deeper? A half octave? Ray ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Ray's Music System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Tom, your project is looking pretty nice! Keep pluggin'! Really nice job on the crossovers, too. I think Al would approve. Question, off-topic. Since you are an engine expert, what do you think about Piech's new "W" engine? I've got an old Yukon with about 140K miles on it, and am thinking about going the Passat W route. Packing 270 hp into a little V8 and putting it on an AWD Passat sounds pretty interesting. Pricey, for sure, but I usually keep my cars about 10 years, take care of them, and put a ton of miles on them. Was thinking about a clean, used A6 2.7T as well, but I think I'd prefer the normally aspirated W8 to a V6 with blowers. Or maybe turbos have just gotten a lot better than they were 20 years ago (I had a little history with an old Saab in the Rockies ... another story). Thanks for your expert opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Ray, To be honest with you...it will take some work...but between my experience in woodworking and speaker building...plus the added bonus that I am a fairly competent photographer and writer...I think it will be "doable"...BTW...I will include all the basics of woodworking helpful hints up front in the booklet and refer to the particular "hint" whenever it is needed throughout the process of building these. I will be using a small pocket recorder while I do these to ensure that I don't leave anything out, too. It won't just be a set of plans and a few pics, though...as you can imagine...I will even include a cutsheet list/diagram...and "tools/supplies needed" listing in it. As for scaling down a LaScala...why not just build a Heresy instead? A helluva lot easier project!! As for scaling UP the LaScala bass bin for more low-end...just build a k-horn bass bin? ------------------ I can now receive private messages This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 07-08-2002 at 07:02 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungkiman Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Ray, I hear you. I'm sure there is some design/ engineering software somewhere that would help us answer these questions. I, like you, am interested in such things. I am also in the process of re-modeling my house, and would like to "build-in" bass enclosures and such. I have one available "closet" in my dining room 96"Tall x 36"Deep x 30"Wide that I'm itching to do something with. Also a window seat 18"Tall x 24"Deep x 112"wide. On the window seat, those dimensions would be for cubic volume considerations only. Trimmed out, the available opening would be closer to 6"Tall x 96"Wide. Can anyone help us? Thanks, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted July 15, 2002 Author Share Posted July 15, 2002 Chris R, Sorry to take so long to get back to you on this engine/car Q. The engine in your Yukon is something I know about and can do anything I want with with but "Piech's new "W" engine?" I know nothing of, have never before heard of Piech's. I'm quite ignorant of foreign cars and their details. I swore off those things after I once stupidly said something like "Why sure I can put your DOHC Maserati basket case back together. Bring the boxes over." One of the worst mistakes of my life. Isn't a Passat some sort of VW? I've done a couple vintage VW's but that's about all I know about them. Sorry, I'd like to be helpful but am just not qualified in overseas cars. If I were buying a foreign car it would be a Honda, I've known several people who have had excellent results with them. I definitely like your philosphy of car ownership though. I do the same only drag it out longer. Think of the thousands saved on car payments. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted July 15, 2002 Share Posted July 15, 2002 Not bad, not bad at all. Q. ------------------ Q-Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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