cessna1466u Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Hello all, I asked this question in another forum and the answer seems to be unanimous to remove them but I thought I would get some opinions here as well before I go through the process of removing them. These are Klipsch RW-12D subs. I know I have a placement issue but I think I migh thave made things worse by adding bracing and polyfill on the inside. One common concensus is that I messed around with the factory tunning by doing this. What is the opinion here. I have about 1lb of polyfill in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 The bracing made the cabinet volume smaller and the polyfill made the cabinet act bigger. It's probably a wash. How does it sound? Notice any difference from how it sounded before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cessna1466u Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 The bracing made the cabinet volume smaller and the polyfill made the cabinet act bigger. It's probably a wash. How does it sound? Notice any difference from how it sounded before? That is the problem, I didn't. I had one and it sounded just fine without the additional stuff so I added it and thought it sound a little better. Then I got another one and expected to rip the drywall off the 2x4's. So I added bracing and polyfill to it as well and was completely disapointed. It's good but not what I though. I know I have some serious placement issues but I thought I would check on the additions to see if that could be what was causing my problems as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 The difference in cabinet volume due to the limited brace work that you have added is not in any way significant. Polly fill is a poor material for damping especially at low frequencies. Stuffing hard with polly only eats up cabinet volume. Long fiber wool is also very good but a pita to tease out and use but it works a little better than fiberglass so fiberglass is your best all around damping material. I expect that the problem here is with the sub that failed to improve. So simply pull the poly out do not worry about the brace work that can only make things better. Now the brace work will stop the sub from sounding fat due to wall flex so it you think the sub sounds thin with the braces don't blame the brace that is simply how the sub sounds and fat bass is not what you want as it will obscure a lot of detail. So to recap just try to get the damping back as close to stock on the problem sub and see it sounds the same better or worse. I expect that sub has some issues. Good luck and best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cessna1466u Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) The difference in cabinet volume due to the limited brace work that you have added is not in any way significant. Polly fill is a poor material for damping especially at low frequencies. Stuffing hard with polly only eats up cabinet volume. Long fiber wool is also very good but a pita to tease out and use but it works a little better than fiberglass so fiberglass is your best all around damping material. I expect that the problem here is with the sub that failed to improve. So simply pull the poly out do not worry about the brace work that can only make things better. Now the brace work will stop the sub from sounding fat due to wall flex so it you think the sub sounds thin with the braces don't blame the brace that is simply how the sub sounds and fat bass is not what you want as it will obscure a lot of detail. So to recap just try to get the damping back as close to stock on the problem sub and see it sounds the same better or worse. I expect that sub has some issues. Good luck and best regards Moray James. So remove the poly and leave the brace? You don't think leaving the brace is going to take away from the volume of the box? Also what does fat sound like? I am not trying to be funny I am serious, the bass right now is very tight and not boomy. So remove the poly and leave the brace? You don't think leaving the brace is going to take away from the volume of the box? Also what does fat sound like? I am not trying to be funny I am serious, the bass right now is very tight and not boomy. Edited January 30, 2014 by cessna1466u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 . Polly fill is a poor material for damping especially at low frequencies It's not used for damping. It can make the box act slightly larger if packed correctly (not stuffed too densely). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 If you have 4' or 2x4 bracing, it is only .15 cu ft reduction in volume. That won't influence the overall sound much in a ported enclosure. The only way to know for sure is to use a microphone and test with and without. You mentioned placement issues. Perhaps you could get some help on that from us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cessna1466u Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 If you have 4' or 2x4 bracing, it is only .15 cu ft reduction in volume. That won't influence the overall sound much in a ported enclosure. The only way to know for sure is to use a microphone and test with and without. You mentioned placement issues. Perhaps you could get some help on that from us? Mustang guy, I am actually embarassed with my placement issue. It was a total rookie mistake and I went for looks not for what would sound good. I will post a picture in hopes that someone might shed some light. I removed the braces and the polyfill this evening. I went ahead and put an extra bead of glue around all the edges just in case and will let it dry overnight. While doing this my 14year old decides he wants to help and accidently put a hole/dent on the sub. I am hoping it doesnt affect it. It doesnt go all the way through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Bracing nor polyfil will fix your problem if you are the same person that asked this question on AVS forum. Those subs need to be moved to where they work best, not wherer they look nice. Only then can you decide if they are the right subs for you. I know that it is hard with that big entertainment center to move things around. Edited January 31, 2014 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cessna1466u Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Yes I am the same person. I tried placing them on the side today and didn't really notice a difference. I think at this point I have not choice but to wait till tax return and finally get the towers I want and replace the entertainement center with a flat screen on the wall. Then I can place the subs on the front corners. I think that will be the best place for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 No poly in anything iv ever seen, was worth its salt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 If it's working don't FIX it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shodrewken Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 If you have 4' or 2x4 bracing, it is only .15 cu ft reduction in volume. That won't influence the overall sound much in a ported enclosure. The only way to know for sure is to use a microphone and test with and without. You mentioned placement issues. Perhaps you could get some help on that from us? Mustang guy, I am actually embarassed with my placement issue. It was a total rookie mistake and I went for looks not for what would sound good. I will post a picture in hopes that someone might shed some light. I removed the braces and the polyfill this evening. I went ahead and put an extra bead of glue around all the edges just in case and will let it dry overnight. While doing this my 14year old decides he wants to help and accidently put a hole/dent on the sub. I am hoping it doesnt affect it. It doesnt go all the way through.If it was just dented it wouldn't make a difference in SQ, but to me it looks punctured, so I couldn't say for sure if it will mess with the sound until you give it a listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Looks punctured to me too. Will probably whistle Dixie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cessna1466u Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Looks punctured to me too. Will probably whistle Dixie. Thanks guys, as I mentioned last night I removed the brace and the stuffing. That was not fun. Why is when you want glue to stick it doesn't and when you don't its impossible to get off. It didn't help that I glued and stapled the poly down. I used some really high strength glue around the seems just in case and let it dry overnight. I double checked this morning and its ready to put back together again. As far as I can tell it is not punctured. I don't see light or fill air coming through it. I put my lips to it and blew and it felt like a good seal. I will know tonight when I put it back together. Thanks again for all your help. Edited January 31, 2014 by cessna1466u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cessna1466u Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 If you have 4' or 2x4 bracing, it is only .15 cu ft reduction in volume. That won't influence the overall sound much in a ported enclosure. The only way to know for sure is to use a microphone and test with and without. You mentioned placement issues. Perhaps you could get some help on that from us? Mustang guy, I am actually embarassed with my placement issue. It was a total rookie mistake and I went for looks not for what would sound good. I will post a picture in hopes that someone might shed some light. I removed the braces and the polyfill this evening. I went ahead and put an extra bead of glue around all the edges just in case and will let it dry overnight. While doing this my 14year old decides he wants to help and accidently put a hole/dent on the sub. I am hoping it doesnt affect it. It doesnt go all the way through.If it was just dented it wouldn't make a difference in SQ, but to me it looks punctured, so I couldn't say for sure if it will mess with the sound until you give it a listen. Cviper I miss LGB. Used to live in calif until about 8 years ago. Miss the weather and the beaches but not the traffic. Had some great evenings in Belmont Shores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Cessna, I think you are on the right track to rearrange the room. People spend money and end up doing things that they would have never imagined in the beginning to get there HT system running the way they want it to sound. You paid good money out for your system it so get the best SQ out of it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I would absolutly not remove any bracing from these very thin boxes, the bracing was not factored for looks. Adding stuffing will add volume as "seen"by the driver. Adding stuffing within reason is a YES, removing bracing a big NO. Simply common sense here. When i build cabinets for subs I make sure I have bracing every 5 inches or so and matrix bracing in the cabinets holding the very high performance drivers (LMS-Ultra, Acoupower, Tumult...). The less the cabinet walls vibrate the less loss you have, the less sound leak you have. the better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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