forresthump2 Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 That right STB. I am a business owner. And that's who you work for are owners and those with the real guts to risk money investing so you can have your job available. Or you work for the taxpayers who work hard to give you a job. Your trouble is you don't know who you work for. But as things right themselves you will. And dont look for a job from a poor person or the GOV which is going more in debt mainly due to the poor economy you and you croanies only want to make worse with your artificial fixes. Capitalism works and no quarter should be given to the lackeys that want more pay for less work. This not about me. I'm not the one slamming our system. I just see the barbarians at the gate. Liberals and terrorists are forming the same team. ------------------ Go Forth and Hump the World Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergeek Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 See how the Liberals operate. Go after the messenger & not the message. They have no rational answers nor solutions. In their subtle way they attack the messenger and the delivery and the style but don't have answers. LOL. The only thing this whole thread has proven is how Liberals operate when trying to dupe the listeners toward the adsurd. How else do salesmen sell you a $hit product? ------------------ live long & prosper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump2 Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Hey Denteen you dont directly address the Critisism of your plan whatevr the Hello it is. Everybody can see you just a long-winded antagonist trying to put down America for some reason. What gives and why now? Why dont you tell us in a few short sentences for us stupid folk what you want and exactly how it should be done. Then answer the critiques without attacking the intelligence of the critic or teying to confuse. You being too transparent. LOL ------------------ Go Forth and Hump the World Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump2 Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Forrest - "Higher tariffs mean cost push inflation and higher prices and inflation for we the consumer". Denteen: "If you were intelligent enough to follow my massive space taking archive of a political message in the guise of idealogy and honest discussion post and if you were more liberal in your upbringing to possess such a high intellect only true Left Coast liberals do then you would ynderstand that tariffs have nothing to do with t he price of tea in China as they have plenty of resources and workers and the higher they pay them the lower the price goes. Forrest: "Man this chump is a politician dressed up like Plato." MUHAHAHA P.S., STB you will work for me some day. Hope your health plan can get you the penicillin cause I don't want to pay for it. LOL ------------------ Go Forth and Hump the World Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergeek Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 " benefit YOU instead of some unknown guy in China who wants your job but doesn't want the associated responsibility of paying for your defense." That's horse hockey. What it means is I already worked hard and made it, and you want to raise my prices so somebody who doesn't want to work hard or better themselves can get paid more. Not by their own initiative but by the Big GOV, and the bleeding hearts that have feelings of guilt or anger to get over. That's it in a nutshell. What you do is take away competition for both companies and workers to better themselves. You take away the incentive for workers to better themselves for higher paying, higher skilled jobs. And you take the low skill jobs from overseas where they more benefit developing countries and put them right back here. Then the developing countries low skilled workers incomes don't grow & they can't purchase more high tech products and services from us to spur higher paying job growth. As you can see MD suggests taking current progressive trade policy & economics moving in a positive spiral & throwing it on its head into a negative spiral. He advocates higher prices for consumers, more low paying jobs, less high-skilled job training incentive, less exports and less higher-paying jobs. We don't need more employment per se. We need more employment in higher paying jobs so that we get resultant efficiences while letting the low-skilled jobs go overseas where it betters their economies and they become better customers of our advanced exports. Maybe this is why both GOP & democrats embrace global trade. Because it makes so much common sense. LOL And how about that trade authority for W. Bush? Bipartisan effort there. Sometimes the GOV suprises me & actually gives the Prez some authority to actually match his responsibility. MD is a lone voice in the minority. A regular Don Q. indeed. Keep living the dream and chasing your windmills. But this thread is an exercise in nonsense and obviously all about politics. If somebody continuously slams something in such an unfair and unbalanced argument, & patently ignores obvious critisisms, you can bet you bottom minimum wage dollar that they have an agenda. ------------------ live long & prosper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOOMIS914 Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Mdeneen----ARE YOU STILL TALKING??!!! I was out of town on business for several days and your still slinging your BS!!!!!! If you spent as much time and energy working as you do yapping here, the economy might turn around quick! Forest and Cybergeek are so RIGHT about all this that I have to laugh at Dentyne's long-winded, "but we must count all the votes" responses.....give it a rest. Now Forest and Cybergeek----here is the real challenge...don't respond to his leftist, socialism-in-disguise, radical views on "How I love the working man" more like how I plan to steal from the working class (you read rich) and give to the non-working (poor) class. Unions---I won't piss on all of them but here in Detroit UAW has a popular meaning and it ain't United Auto Workers, it's ****U Ain't Workin'****. The general rule in the auto plants here is, fire one drunken, drug-addicted, lazy UAW line worker and plan on getting 10 grievances which will cost the co. far greater.....HMMMMM.... NEWS FLASH!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just heard that Al Sore has shaved his beard and declared he will run for President in 2004.....What a jackass, still crying about counting all the votes. No shame whatsoever. This thread has become a total joke not because of Forest & cybergeek but for the fact that Larry started this Horsedung and dentyne got a lot of free time on his hands...just look at the length of his posts. Sure you aren't a college professor at UC-Berkeley?? Now, I know why I keep hanging at AVS Forum. I'm just partial to those elitist audio/videophiles and the global products that fuel our hobby. Rational discussion is clearly not working with Dentyne. He continues to live in "fantasyland" where we all make $150,000/year and there are no poor, homeless, medical insurance problems and of course, lots of free lunches. Emotional based rhetoric, that has no substance or common sense. ------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOOMIS914 Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Mdeneen- I've noticed an interesting trend with your posts and it is that many of them are posted during the regular workday (M-F) during the hours between 8AM-5PM. I have some very simple (but direct) questions for you: Do you have a job? Or are you milking the clock on company time using the company provided high-speed DSL? Or do you own your business and it is just so terribly successful that you spend your free time on the Internet audio forums promoting your European-socialism agenda. Or you're on one long summer vacation?? Regardless, if you're working for someone else or are your own boss. Many of us truly work EVERYDAY for at least 8 hours and in my case more like twelve. How irresponsible of you to milk your employer or if self-employed LIE to yourself and others about your ideals. Quick, go back and scroll through all of your posts and look at the times.....Dang, didn't think of that!! GOTCHA------ You just lazy like the rest of em' Flame em' Forest!! ------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergeek Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 MD, Didn't intend to give you another opportunity to spin out. You obviously don't want to directly retort the logical counterpoints to raising tariffs on our imported goods, such as the skewed inflation figures in the chart that you use as your basis that the system is evil, the taking away of incentives for US workers to get training for higher-skilled jobs, the supply of labor for lower skilled jobs, and out of control inflation and higher prices for the consumer in general. How do you raise real income with tariffs? Do you really want to shut down the borders? You never answered that. How do you keep the low skilled labor from following the low skilled jobs? Maybe you'd like to just talk about yourself and continue the grandstanding. Did your company fail and was it because you couldn't compete? How much of your wealth have you given to charity? At least 3/4 so far i would presume. Do you send the government an extra 50% of your income to spend on their pork and social programs? Is every product you own from a company at least headquartered in the USA? You know, lower quality and higher priced or not. Just to ensure jobs and higher pay for US workers. BTW, i consider politicians a necessary evil. I truely believe that by starting a company and creating something from nothing, expanding the labor force with good pay and benefits, and paying numerous taxes and GOV fees, I have already done more economic good for this country than Al Gore or his like kind of career politicians will ever do in their lifetimes. I'm all for GOV spending that primes the pump in our own country. Student loans and grants for those that really need them. I don't support spending for wards of the state - those that can, but choose not to better themselves. I don't believe in the redistribution of wealth for equality, but I do believe in equal opportuntity for all. What incenses me about Liberals is the first place they look for money is in other people's pockets. The new Democratic party now being guided by the new socialists like Gore, Hilly and Tom & Dick is based on jealousy of wealth and income. Extreme populism. The first place they look is more spending and higher taxes. Not from a better economy, which is by far the primary source of tax revenues. And not by cutting spending elsewhere, such as with unconstitutional pork projects, and social programs that only encourage sloth. What we're seeing now is a bit of adjustment until our workers get off their can and get better trained, and foreign workers in the developing countries grow their incomes and wealth so they can buy more of our higher tech products and employ more of our workers. What needs to be regulated is not wages or tariffs, but the expectations of the American workers. The Liberals are constantly offering the easy way out. As in don't better yourself or try to achieve the American dream with education, training and hard work & personal initiative, because we'll take care of you by playing Robin Hood. The system is unfair and broke, so why try? But the majority in the middle know better. They know there's no such thing as a free lunch. Now specifically MD, how do we de-globalize and overcome all the specific problems presented to you? You really don't want to argue the facts or use reasonable specifics now do you? After all this is politics. But when you behave like a politician, don't expect to be taken seriously. ------------------ live long & prosper This message has been edited by cybergeek on 08-06-2002 at 10:07 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bean Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 You conservatives don't like to admit that your solutions are not working. Maybe we need to cut taxes on the wealthy even further. How about repealing the estate tax even faster. How about another income tax rebate. Let's get rid of Social Security and we can put it all in stocks. Food stamps and welfare barely show up on the radar but let's get rid of it, let's do it for Rush. Those darn overpaid teachers, why do we even need teachers, fire them all. This sad dogmatic utopian conservatism would be a joke except people are literaly sick and dying in in your America because you cling to a dogma that is unable to address the problems of a modern society. No thinking, just talking the talk huh. It's not working. ------------------ eat your vegetables This message has been edited by Big Bean on 08-06-2002 at 10:46 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikekid Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Somebody, please pass me a tissue........ I'm still crying. Hey, I have an idea! Being that this is the "General" area of this forum, and this political crap is so depressing, what do you guys think are the best, most absorbent adult diapers? Attends or Depends? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump2 Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Bloomis, see you can't give him an out like that cause he'll use that to avoid the issues. LOL My God this guy is a clobe cross between Al Sore and Head even fatter than *** Michael Moore. LOL Let see MD does say its all about politics and he has an agenda and he doesn't want to directly discuss the issues. Hmmmm, oh i got it he just want you to Vote for the far left Democrats. That the ticket. LOL Maybe he'll eventually admit that too. LOL The Demoncrats have now dug their grave tonight. They have choosen the far left candidates while the GOP have chosen the More moderate. The trap will be sprung in Nov. Get ready for more of the good ole American Dream and apple pie in Nov libbies. The Demoncrat party is going down the tubes along with the unions, lawyers and deadbeats. Hee-hee-hee ------------------ Go Forth and Hump the World Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bean Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Give me a few examples of how this pure conservatism has been so good for America since say 1975. Help me understand. ------------------ eat your vegetables Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 mdeenan, you are ignoring the obvious contradictions in your own posts. you also still frame the discussion in manners that ignore simple reasoning, i.e. merit vs. supply. nothing more than a red herring. you ignore the differences between unskilled and skilled labor. you are also ignoring basic realities of a market economy. companies are not moving jobs overseas because of a greater labor supply - they are moving them because Americans either refuse to work in these menial jobs, demand higher wages for menial work, and/or attempt to unionize to force higher wages. farmers do not move their operations overseas - yet the vast majority of workers are illegal or legal immigrants. why? because Americans do not want to toil in the fields and bust their asses for a paltry $5/hr. there are plenty of people 'qualified' to do this work so labor supply is not an issue. skilled labor on the other hand is based on merit. you have the credentials or you do not. you have performed or you have not. you have contributed to the success of the company or you have not. supply is a factor in pay - when the labor pool is short on the necessary skills...or merit if you will. by the way, there is no shortage of folks with the skills needed in the high paying industries. why is that and what causes these certain industries to provide such high pay in light of your 'supply' argument? you may think the 'rules' can all be changed so that everything functions the way you want it to. certain 'rules' simply can not be broken no matter how much you want them to be. you can not change human nature. you can not make the US a big commune. you can not bury your head in the sand and de-Globalize. wonderful buzzword, though: "Americans unite. Deglobalize now." It is however very myopic. ------------------ HT - Klipsch Synergy Premiere Audio - Heresy, KG4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikekid Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Stop!!!!!!!!!!! Don't do it!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 So Forrest you're a business owner, a boss. So you speak to your own interest. Fine. So you want total control over your workers. Fine. But some people have the moxie to stand up to you and your kind and that just drives you nuts. Fine. I submit that Conservatives while great flag-wavers have little true patriotism. They make a show of love of country but have no love for their countrymen. They would sell us all down the river, and are doing so now, for profit. Lenin said if were to hang The United States an American businessman would sell him the rope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 by the way, these conservative vs. liberal remarks are pure nonsense. do you folks not simply see they are the same? while you whine about these silly labels, those 'professional' politicians are content to sit in their offices, looking out for their own personal interests (AND checkbooks), all the while throwing out some meaningless issue for the people to rally around. its asinine really. meanwhile, our "enlightened" citizens will vote these same hypocrites and power mongers back into office and continue to whine about the same stupid things. The smart person would recognize real changes need to be made and will be a merger between ideologies. The longer you cling to the dogma of the right or the left, the longer it will be before constructive change occurs. As John Lennon said - and this is a music forum - "You think you're so clever, so classless, and free... But you're still f*cking peasants as far as I see" ------------------ HT - Klipsch Synergy Premiere Audio - Heresy, KG4 This message has been edited by crash827 on 08-06-2002 at 10:58 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bean Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Hey Forest- I think your calling it wrong. I'll bet the republicans take a bath Nov. 4th. We'll see. Where's the beef? ------------------ eat your vegetables Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikekid Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 I am a conservative and love my country. I have my own values and beliefs. I'm not going to shove my opinion up anyones a--. Especially over and over again on the same damn thread...on a Klipsch forum. Do this stuff in a cry baby forum elswhere. This is definitely not the place. This has become a joke and I'd bet that most of the members here would agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bean Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Crash - Your right about the republicrats. That's a great Lennon quote. ------------------ eat your vegetables Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOOMIS914 Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 mdeneen- I respect and appreciate your honesty about not working. Seriously. As a card carying conservative, I take personal responsibility in trying to motivate you and others to go and find a job and use whatever skills you may or may not have to the best of your ability. I am assuming you are A) not handicapped/disabled, preventing you from working and Not an Ex-Con/child molestor that is un-employable or C) retired??? So, us conservatives aren't bad guys really, what we struggle with is people like you....Those that can bad- mouth our system and country and waste your time posting your political views and hostility to a faceless audience that can almost certainly do nothing to help you get employed. Do you choose not to work or are there no jobs available where you live? You have choices everyday to either "cry in your beer" and rain on everyone else's parade OR you can grab yourself by your bootstraps, take a shower, shave, clean up, put on the nicest clothes you own and GO SEEK OUT EMPLOYMENT.....I assure you it will not knock at your door, you have to go make your own future. If there are no jobs where you live.....MOVE to where the work is! I firmly believe that the choices I/you/we made and make determine our success today and tomorrow. It is not some upper class conspiracy to keep people down and inhibit personal growth or financial success. In fact, it is quite the opposite. The problem is there are two different philosophies on how to achieve success or financial stability. Mine says work hard, no work your *** off harder than everyone I know and take care of my family and good things will happen. The other philosophy is to blame others and their success on "circumstances and excuses" while relying on government or external forces (unions, etc.) to protect me(you). So Mdeneen, let's help you find out what it is you love or are good at (cause it sure ain't economics) and put those fast typing fingers to use. Invest the time you waste here (because your own words were that "The time that I waste is my own") towards finding a job or taking a class or getting some training. The Armed Forces are always hiring. You almost have me feeling sorry for you but I won't take the bait. Now move it soldier!!! ------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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