avguytx Posted May 4, 2015 Author Share Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) Yes, I've had that go the other way in the past but it was worth a try since they didn't sound that great before. They actually have a tad more low end but that low vocal range that the woofers would typically produce just isn't there...before or after. If the horn wall was affecting the mids that much, one would think it would happen in everyone's KLF's and not just a few. It could be just a null in the bass wave since the sound reminds me of improper placement of a home sub where in the listening position, it sounds muted but other parts of the room are pounding. When I was the rep for Sunfish and PSB, I'd recommend my dealers to put the subwoofer in the spot the customer sat and go listen around the room to find the strong bass by walking around. Then, locate the sub where that loud spot was and it would sound strong at the seated position. 90%+ of the time, it worked based on if a sub could go in that spot. Obviously I can't do that with these. Ha I wonder what the probability of the 97uf capacitor in the low pass section of the crossover being out of whack and lowering the crossover point. I never lifted a leg to meter it and see. It could happen but... Edited May 4, 2015 by avguytx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 a good observation and worth looking into. So many folks have no issues with the KLF30, four 12 inch woofers making bass. While I don't think that the stock foam in a KLF30 being moved lower will make or break the tuning it won't help. I mentioned it in broad terms for those reading who might think damping around the vents a good idea. Good luck with your project I expect that if you persist you will achieve success, best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 My thoughts exactly. I heard these speakers many times in years past at CES, the store I worked at, and people's houses and they were impressive. That's why it's hard to come up with a viable solution ad to what's holding them back. They don't sound "awful", just too hot in the midrang. But surely nothing is wrong with all 4 woofers. When played loud, they definitely rock the house with Eagles - Hell Freezes Over playing on them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cradeldorf Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I removed most of my foam except a 3" wide strip down one side of the cabinet up against the motorboard. and a square stapled to the top. And a small piece laying in the bottom against the bottom of the port openings. sorry their not doing what you'd hoped. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 No worries. They've stayed in the living room but I haven't had time to listen to them sine Sunday. I doubt I get any time to work on them this weekend as I am building a new butcher block style dining table for my wife for mothers day. Plus I think I have to go to someone's graduation...gotta check that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 I listened to lots of various music tonite and still can't get a grasp on these. I'm also still curious if some sort of sub par mid diaphragm might've been used. I messed with equalization within the JRiver program both in standard and parametric and even that left some to be desired. Sheesh.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cradeldorf Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Man I can't believe your having to go through this. If you were close I'd offer to trade you even up for my RF82's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 I've jacked around with some equalization on them, both graphic and parametric, within JRiver and they sound pretty good. Sure is a lot of tinkering but it's better. Not the CF-3's but ok. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 CF-3's are back as the mains. Maybe the 30's sound like they're supposed to and they're just not my cup of tea and/or not made for this living room. No worries. The CF-3's will stay in place unless/until a pair of 4's come along. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 I took my KLF-30's to my best friends house and, in his living room and practically the same equipment, they sounded tons better. They just don't match up with my living room so they will be sold off here before long. It was worth a try and I enjoyed the build process as always. Back on the search for some Cornwall's and see how they work out in my living room. I do have another buddy fairly close that owns a small arsenal of speakers including Cornwalls and has owned LS's and K'horns. Maybe he'll let me borrow the CW's for a week or so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 So I was off today and listening to some music on the CF-3's (Eagles - Hell Freezes Over) and thought I'd drop the KLF-30's back in place for a listen. With the same EQ curve from the JRiver settings, they do ok. In comparison, the lower mids/vocals are a little lacking which is rather surprising for a 3-way. We just retired some sound system out at the school I'm a network admin at and I'm thinking about snagging one, or two, of the Crown XTi1000 amplifiers and tinker with some passive bi-amping. I'd have to get some XLR or 1/4" to RCA adapters, though. Currently, I'm using a rebuilt Carver M200t (120wpc or so) which sounds very good on both but not near what they could shine with. I also have a rebuilt Soundcraftsmen A5002 (250wpc @ 8-ohm) at my buddy's house but I'd have to coerce him to let me pull it out of the rack. I keep looking at them and telling myself I'm going to sell them. I really would like to come across a pair of CF-4 version 1's and had first dibs on a pair of version 2's recently for $600 but passed. He was the original owner and had bought them at Custom Audio years ago. I'm pretty sure my CF-3's are the "undesirable" version 3's but they sound damn good to me after some minor work to them. Hmmm... What to do. Oh well, I'll just listen for now. It doesn't help that my wife likes the looks of the black KLF-30's better, either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 And Donald Fagen's "Morph The Cat" sounds quite good btw... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) Cradeldorf, would you believe I tried reversing the phasing on the mids and it does actually sound better? Maybe they were backwards from the factory....maybe they weren't....but, they've always sounded a little hollow in the mids and vocals. The bass is still a little off but they are definitely more listenable. I know when you're running a 3-way with a 12db/oct crossover you have to invert the mid to keep the phasing in line but I believe these are 18db/oct on the high pass side. It does seem to have better upper midbass/lower midrange transition around the crossover point. I'm going over some songs I've known quite indepth for 30 years and now it sounds more like what it's supposed to in the vocals. Or at least I "want" to believe it sounds different/better. Could be placebo effect. Time will tell. Next step....bi-amping. My wife is bringing home about 20 yards of Coban from the clinic she runs and I'm going to wrap the mid horns on the KLF-30's and also the horns on the CF-4's. I had read through one of the looooong CF-3/4 posts about someone doing that and it intrigued me. Easy to do, sticks to itself well, and comes off it it sucks/makes no difference. Hmmm.... Edited June 19, 2015 by avguytx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cradeldorf Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) Cradeldorf, would you believe I tried reversing the phasing on the mids and it does actually sound better? Maybe they were backwards from the factory....maybe they weren't....but, they've always sounded a little hollow in the mids and vocals. The bass is still a little off but they are definitely more listenable. I know when you're running a 3-way with a 12db/oct crossover you have to invert the mid to keep the phasing in line but I believe these are 18db/oct on the high pass side. It does seem to have better upper midbass/lower midrange transition around the crossover point. I'm going over some songs I've known quite indepth for 30 years and now it sounds more like what it's supposed to in the vocals. Or at least I "want" to believe it sounds different/better. Could be placebo effect. Time will tell. Next step....bi-amping. My wife is bringing home about 20 yards of Coban from the clinic she runs and I'm going to wrap the mid horns on the KLF-30's and also the horns on the CF-4's. I had read through one of the looooong CF-3/4 posts about someone doing that and it intrigued me. Easy to do, sticks to itself well, and comes off it it sucks/makes no difference. Hmmm.... It's an easy test, Listen for about a week and then switch it back, You should notice immediately that it sounds wrong/worse. I thought it gave them a very deep soundstage sound too which I like. I'm still jamming mine just like my mod list says. I'm still standing by my weatherstripping foam on the inside of the woofer spokes mod. It was a total game changer for me, made them totally blastable without them getting annoying loud... They just get good and loud, with no annoyingness. somebody else said they tried it but they didn't use what I used therefore they didn't get the results I got. They used something with no absorbant qualitys like the weatherstripping foam had. And I don't eq. all I use is the bass and treble knobs on my HK3390 Right now they're running along side a pair or RF82's so I'm getting the best of both worlds. Edited June 21, 2015 by cradeldorf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longdrive03 Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 AVGUY, I may be late but attached is the TS specs I got when I tested a K-31 woofer. Glad to know there's another Little Rock area guy on the forum. Good luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 AVGUY, I may be late but attached is the TS specs I got when I tested a K-31 woofer. Glad to know there's another Little Rock area guy on the forum. Good luck. longdrive03, You know, I saw your chart before and for a single k-31 I am a little baffled. How can the resistance of a single woofer be 3.3665 ohms in a double woofer speaker? That would make two woofers together 1.5 / 1.6 ohms. Hopefully the rest of the values that rely on revc aren't doubled or halved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.JPG.e865cb9742a8f1a873e5b238842d7c3f.JPG)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.