DrWho Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Looks like JBL is employing a similar idea on their new EON series: I've never been a fan of the EON series, and the Bluetooth control over system parameters is a bit gimmicky in my mind, but I thought you Karlson fans would get a kick out of the "waveguide" or whatever it is they're calling it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Somewhere over on another forum that was talking about Karlson's designs of the early 1950s, someone mentioned that if you've trying to achieve higher directivity control in a loudspeaker...that horns work really well...while using flat baffles with creative holes cut in them--really don't. I thought that was a pretty good summary of the heavy comb filtering effects of these designs that seem to audibly match some of what I'd call zig-zag equalization, i.e., "automatic equalization" of some mastering tools on the market, techniques that I've found in certain recordings, notably those of the record company Nonesuch, but is certainly not limited to that one company's recordings. It has always been a mystery to me why I never liked the recording/finished product quality of Nonesuch (from the 1960s to the present)--and now I know why, I don't know if all of Nonesuch's recordings are like this but the effect on listening pleasure is certainly not positive, IMHO. I've also found that, once you are successful in un-zig-zagging these recordings' EQ, it sounds much better (and I would guess the same is true for Karlson loudspeakers). However, it is not fun to find the inverse equalization curves for these recordings, and I usually abandon trying to correct them, just like highly compressed and otherwise processed recordings of certain pop music produced of late. YMMV. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 First, we had the F curve conversation.... I think we might dub this one the Blob curve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) First, we had the F curve conversation.... I think we might dub this one the Blob curve? Big Amoeba. Edited May 5, 2015 by wvu80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 F curve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 Why do you think this is a zig-zag EQ approach? It looks to me like they're trying to diffract the HF polars of the 15" driver to more closely match that of the tweeter. You're gonna get a little more output across teh band from the slight compression ratio too, but that will be at the expense of frequency response flatness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 It looks to me like they're trying to diffract the HF polars of the 15" driver to more closely match that of the tweeter. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Mike - look at the Karlson design, as I referenced in my response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) Mike - read carefully - I said... Somewhere over on another forum that was talking about Karlson's designs of the early 1950s, someone mentioned that if you've trying to achieve higher directivity control in a loudspeaker...that horns work really well...while using flat baffles with creative holes cut in them--really don't. I thought that was a pretty good summary of the heavy comb filtering effects of these designs that seem to audibly match some of what I'd call zig-zag equalization, Edited May 5, 2015 by Chris A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 F curve? Isn't that what the curved hole is called in a violin or, did I just royally display more depth of my ignorance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_hole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxr dad Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Isn't that what the curved hole is called in a violin or, did I just royally display more depth of my ignorance? There was a thread about why subwoofers dont have a F Curve in them like violins. I think thats what is being asked or maybe I just showed my ignorance??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 whatever happened to the karlson fan with the charts who used to post here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 F curve? Isn't that what the curved hole is called in a violin or, did I just royally display more depth of my ignorance? Oh,I totally forgot about that thread, haha. Maybe we can call it a modified F hole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 the heavy comb filtering effects of these designs Btw, are you talking about the Karlson or the JBL waveguide? Maybe I'm being too literal here, but I'm not seeing what the source of comb-filtering is here. Sure, there is some passband ripple from a compression chamber without a horn attached to it, but that's a strong function of the compression ratio which is very low for the JBL waveguide. As you go higher in frequency, there will be a chamber resonance that causes a low pass filter effect, but that will also have a small effect here (again due to the compresion ratio). You would have to go much higher in frequency before the aperatures are large enough to introduce reflections with enough phase rotation to cause comb-filtering - that should be well above the passband of interest, no? I'm actually fascinated by the approach because the extra cost for the waveguide thing is many a few pennies - I can't imagine the JBL engineers aren't aware of things like comb-filtering, distortion, resonances, etc....I don't think the performance gains are huge, but it makes for an interesting talking point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 F curve? Isn't that what the curved hole is called in a violin or, did I just royally display more depth of my ignorance? Oh,I totally forgot about that thread, haha. Maybe we can call it a modified F hole? Well....now you're getting into the territory of what my wife calls me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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