Woofers and Tweeters Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Jweber it is well known that the CF-4 v3 has the shorter ports, lighter woofers and a XO change which is what makes it different from the v2. I don't know if the CF-3 had similar mods from v2 to v3. I have a XO schematic of the CF-3 labeled CF-3b, but there is no date and no notes, so there was at least one XO change. Can you comment on the difference in sound, if any from the CF-3 v2 to the v3? Sorry, I should have worded that differently. I have one pair of CF3 and I'm not sure if they're V2 or V3. They have the short ports and the black horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) Sorry, I should have worded that differently. I have one pair of CF3 and I'm not sure if they're V2 or V3. They have the short ports and the black horns. OK, thanks. Your best bet for solving that is the serial numbers. By memory, I think the first three digits are DOY, the next two digits are the 2 digit year in reverse, so if your s/n is 12369xxxx they were born on day 123 of the year 1996. Many of us have heard CF-4 or CF-3, but I don't know of many people who have actually heard multiple versions in the same room. All we have is the anecdotal stories of what they may have sounded like from version-to-version. Edited September 25, 2015 by wvu80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 In that case, these CF4 are 94 and the CF3 are 95. Since they were built from 94 to 96, would that make these CF3 the V2? (94-V1, 95-V2, 96-V3?) There have been a couple of CF3 for sale in my area. Always for ~ $1000 and V3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) In that case, these CF4 are 94 and the CF3 are 95. Since they were built from 94 to 96, would that make these CF3 the V2? (94-V1, 95-V2, 96-V3?) That would be correct on both counts, you have the highly coveted version 1 of the CF-4, aka The Holy Grail. The CF-3 v2 is a very desirable speaker because of its slightly smaller footprint and great sound. There have been a couple of CF3 for sale in my area. Always for ~ $1000 and V3. It you can get $1,000 for your CF-3, take it! Edited September 25, 2015 by wvu80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapsnb01 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 In that case, these CF4 are 94 and the CF3 are 95. Since they were built from 94 to 96, would that make these CF3 the V2? (94-V1, 95-V2, 96-V3?) That would be correct on both counts, you have the highly coveted version 1 of the CF-4, aka The Holy Grail. The CF-3 v2 is a very desirable speaker because of its slightly smaller footprint and great sound. There have been a couple of CF3 for sale in my area. Always for ~ $1000 and V3. It you can get $1,000 for your CF-3, take it! Actually, it's a maybe on both accounts. The transition dates were not at year-end for the versions. I have CF-3s that were born in mid-95 that are indeed version 3. The version 1/2 change-over was also not at year-end. The serial number gives you a clue, but it does not definitively tell you which version you have. Version 1s (for both CF 3 & 4) are longer in the port sleeve and have the clear monster wire connecting the crossover to the woofers. Version 2 have the shorter port sleeve, but also the clear monster wire connection. Version 3 have the shorter port sleeve and colored wire connectors. That is the only way to tell the versions. Now the problem here is, a person could have a version 2, where someone replaced the port sleeves with the longer ones...in that instance, I'm not sure anyone could tell the difference (unless the serial number was early '95). So, with the Epic's you have to piece together the information to figure things out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapsnb01 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Took me a while, but this was the only information that Klipsch could send me on the CF-3/4 back in 2013 (they literally had nothing else). EPIC Series Production versions – Rev.1, Rev.2, Rev.3 Rev.1 – Start of Production in Spring of 1994 These models had 5" long port tubes Networks used OFC (monster cable looking) clear jacket wiring. Horns in these models were gray in color. Rev.2 – Fall of 1994 These models had shorter 2.5" long port tubes (to raise the box tuning) Networks had a component / value change to correct for the new ports. (The network wire was still the OFC used in Rev.1.) Rev.3 – Summer of 1995 to end of production in 1996 These models had new lighter cone woofers (new vendor) (these cones aren’t nearly as stiff as the originals and can be deformed much easier by pressing on them) Networks were changed to compensate for the new woofers Change in network wiring to colored 16ga. like what is used in Legend KLF networks New horn material that was 20% glass and was painted black. Serial number decoding for EPIC Series models (or any Klipsch model made from 1990-1997(?)) Production Years Description Example 1990-1997(?) DOY Y2Y1 # # # # (135791234) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmichael21 Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 sent a pm to jweder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmichael21 Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 jweber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmichael21 Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 Youthman, I was staring at the picture of your hT setup. looks awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) Took me a while, but this was the only information that Klipsch could send me on the CF-3/4 back in 2013 (they literally had nothing else). EPIC Series Production versions – Rev.1, Rev.2, Rev.3 Rev.1 – Start of Production in Spring of 1994 These models had 5" long port tubes Networks used OFC (monster cable looking) clear jacket wiring. Horns in these models were gray in color. Rev.2 – Fall of 1994 These models had shorter 2.5" long port tubes (to raise the box tuning) Networks had a component / value change to correct for the new ports. (The network wire was still the OFC used in Rev.1.) Rev.3 – Summer of 1995 to end of production in 1996 These models had new lighter cone woofers (new vendor) (these cones aren’t nearly as stiff as the originals and can be deformed much easier by pressing on them) Networks were changed to compensate for the new woofers Change in network wiring to colored 16ga. like what is used in Legend KLF networks New horn material that was 20% glass and was painted black. Serial number decoding for EPIC Series models (or any Klipsch model made from 1990-1997(?)) Production Years Description Example 1990-1997(?) DOY Y2Y1 # # # # (135791234) I like finding and keeping information on all things CF-4. I knew some of the things you posted, but you added some seasonal information I did not know for the half-year changes. I also did not know the horn material was changed in v3. I thought there was a minor network change in v2, but I never had any confirmation of that, until now. Do all the changes to the CF-4 versions apply to the CF-3 versions as well? Edited September 25, 2015 by wvu80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapsnb01 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Do all the changes to the CF-4 versions apply to the CF-3 versions as well? Yes...at least according to Klipsch when I talked to them a couple years ago. When I called though, they could find no information on the Epics at all. Whoever I talked to did research and a few days later was able to come up with the info that I posted above. I think it would be a fun exercise to have all 3 versions in a room to do a blind A/B/C test. It would at least settle whether the differences between the versions are real, or imagined... More than anything, I'm not convinced that most folks could reliably identify which version is which in a blind test...would be fun to see if I'm right or wrong. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) Do all the changes to the CF-4 versions apply to the CF-3 versions as well? Yes...at least according to Klipsch when I talked to them a couple years ago. When I called though, they could find no information on the Epics at all. Whoever I talked to did research and a few days later was able to come up with the info that I posted above. I think it would be a fun exercise to have all 3 versions in a room to do a blind A/B/C test. It would at least settle whether the differences between the versions are real, or imagined... More than anything, I'm not convinced that most folks could reliably identify which version is which in a blind test...would be fun to see if I'm right or wrong. I concur on this. Without hearing them all at once, it's more of a perceived difference to all. I doubt the moral majority could pick out that much difference between the group. Then, it's a matter of all 3 iterations being compared stock to stock, changed caps to not changed, braced or not braced, etc. Otherwise, as stated before, I'm thoroughly happy with my "altered" version 3's. Edited September 25, 2015 by avguytx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapsnb01 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 I concur on this. Without hearing them all at once, it's more of a perceived difference to all. Otherwise, as stated before, I'm thoroughly happy with my "altered" version 3's. I doubt the moral majority could pick out that much differences. Then, is it a matter of all 3 iterations being compared stock to stock, changed caps to not changed, braced or not braced, etc. That's a really good point...as hard as it would be to get all 3 versions in the same room, it'd be even more difficult to get all 3 in an unmodified condition. I'm with you...no desire to change out my modded version 3s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) I agree with all you guys. I made changes to my CF-4 v1 one speaker at a time, one mod at a time and I can't say I heard a big difference with every change. I think that is primarily because the speaker sounds fantastic stock. I made my mods at first for specific reasons, there was a harshness I could hear in the HF and I thought the speakers were not accurate for piano, being just a little nasal. I later modded the speakers for fun, adding bracing and DH-1506 CD's. I can't tell you I could hear a difference in the braced speakers, but I have heard others say they could on their braced speakers. I could hear a difference with the 1506's, but if I heard modded vs stock I'm not sure I could tell you which sounded better. They both sound great. Could I hear the difference between a 5" long port and a 2.5" port? Not with my ears. Edited September 25, 2015 by wvu80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 sent a pm to jweder replied to PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmichael21 Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 Spoke through pm to jweber. I am 2nd in line but I can hope! Cf-3's could be an acceptable fallback position 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Spoke through pm to jweber. I am 2nd in line but I can hope! Cf-3's could be an acceptable fallback position I think that's a good decision on your part to be flexible. I hear the most about the v1 and v3, I don't know many people who talk about the v2 except that it is a simple matter to revert them to a v1 state. I also have seen where people with the v3's are very happy with their speakers. I would think one could drive the CF-3 with a little less power since they have dual 10" woofs vs the dual 12's of the CF-4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Actually, it's a maybe on both accounts. The transition dates were not at year-end for the versions. I have CF-3s that were born in mid-95 that are indeed version 3. The version 1/2 change-over was also not at year-end. The serial number gives you a clue, but it does not definitively tell you which version you have. Version 1s (for both CF 3 & 4) are longer in the port sleeve and have the clear monster wire connecting the crossover to the woofers. Version 2 have the shorter port sleeve, but also the clear monster wire connection. Version 3 have the shorter port sleeve and colored wire connectors. That is the only way to tell the versions. Now the problem here is, a person could have a version 2, where someone replaced the port sleeves with the longer ones...in that instance, I'm not sure anyone could tell the difference (unless the serial number was early '95). So, with the Epic's you have to piece together the information to figure things out. So, what version of CF3 do you believe these to be? Short ports, black horn and clear cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Spoke through pm to jweber. I am 2nd in line but I can hope! Cf-3's could be an acceptable fallback position I think that's a good decision on your part to be flexible. I hear the most about the v1 and v3, I don't know many people who talk about the v2 except that it is a simple matter to revert them to a v1 state. I also have seen where people with the v3's are very happy with their speakers. I would think one could drive the CF-3 with a little less power since they have dual 10" woofs vs the dual 12's of the CF-4. I like the CF3 too. They have the large horn and tight bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapsnb01 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 So, what version of CF3 do you believe these to be? Short ports, black horn and clear cable. With that information, Version 2. They can't be 3 because there are no red, black, and green wires coming from the network and the v1 would not have a black horn and shorter port tubes. So, assuming everything is stock, it'd have to be a v2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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