Jeff Matthews Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I am certainly open to someone suggesting that the "good life" most of us Klipsch forumites live is somehow dependent on keeping the minimum wage low and why that is the right approach. I just don't see it. Our biggest, most desirable, and durable items are not produced by minimum wage people. How about "less than minimum wage people," as in Chinese? I don't know why you can see the effect of low wages, but you can't see what the effect would be if you raised them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 We've once more circled back to the ethics question. (I find nothing wrong with letting the discussion return to the ultimate question.) It's been shown that there is no rigid law that constrains low wages. It's shown that minimum wages are not handouts or tax payments. It's been shown that a surplus of labor is the general cause of low wages. It's been down that profits are flying through the roof during this long period of falling wages. It's been shown that higher wages will increase spending and that means a vibrant growing economy. It's been down that wages and profit create a dynamic tension opposing each other. It's been shown that if m millions of soldiers are willing to sacrifice their lives for the benefit of all Americans, then a few thousand plutocrats can be asked to sacrifice a few percent of their obscene incomes. It's been shown that the economy consist of hundreds of "controls" that can be moved up or down by whatever monied group can pay Congress to do on their behalf. Now, all that needs to be shown is that we have an ethical duty to make the economy good and useful for all citizens. Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Do you all realize we lost major industries because we could not adapt and pay workers low enough to compete? Do you realize this wage inelasticity is causing further outsourcing as we speak? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Now, all that needs to be shown is that we have an ethical duty to make the economy good and useful for all citizens. What needs to be shown is what citizens can do for themselves to make their lots in life better. Do you really, truly believe we will move to an isolated economy and our aristocrats will give up their profits because Congress will pass a law? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Could not adapt. Yes. Worker pay? That's a Maguffin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) How about "less than minimum wage people," as in Chinese? You mean Chinese Americans? If you are talking about PRC it's a red herring. Not sure I've ever had a hamburger cooked by or paid for groceries to a PRC citizen. OK...fact is I had a few while working in the PRC but don't think that counts. Dave Edited November 12, 2015 by Mallette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Could not adapt. Yes. Worker pay? That's a Maguffin. I am not sure what you mean, but it is my belief that workers could not accept low enough pay. So, the jobs left them and went to others who could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 How about "less than minimum wage people," as in Chinese? You mean Chinese Americans? If you are talking about PRC it's a red herring. Not sure I've ever had a hamburger or paid for groceries to a PRC citizen. Dave Where do you think our steel industry went, for example? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Do you really, truly believe we will move to an isolated economy and our aristocrats will give up their profits because Congress will pass a law? Not speaking for him, and not holding to the either or of a law, but I reject the idea of an isolated economy simply on the basis of reality. Corporate globalization is already here, what is lagging and being suppressed is organized labor globalization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Could not adapt. Yes. Worker pay? That's a Maguffin. I am not sure what you mean, but it is my belief that workers could not accept low enough pay. So, the jobs left them and went to others who could. Wrong. Owners and management salivated over increased pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I reject the idea of an isolated economy simply on the basis of reality. You and me, both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Where do you think our steel industry went, for example? and why does their steel suck so much compared to ours, or the Germans, or even the English? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Could not adapt. Yes. Worker pay? That's a Maguffin. I am not sure what you mean, but it is my belief that workers could not accept low enough pay. So, the jobs left them and went to others who could. Wrong. Owners and management salivated over increased pay. Right. And how were they to derive those increases? Profits? Oh, yes. Profits! And how were they going to realize higher profits? By paying less in labor? Oh, yes. Less in labor! Hey, Johnny and Nick, can you work for $1.50 an hour like Xiao Ye Ling? No? So sorry. Here's 2 weeks pay. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Where do you think our steel industry went, for example? and why does their steel suck so much compared to ours, or the Germans, or even the English? and why do we keep on buying it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Exactly. Why? Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 http://qz.com/479639/walmart-and-other-us-companies-are-starting-to-feel-the-full-effect-of-minimum-wage-increases/ They even specifically named my supposedly ridiculous chicken example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Right. And how were they to derive those increases? Profits? Oh, yes. Profits! And how were they going to realize higher profits? By paying less in labor? Oh, yes. Less in labor! Hey, Johnny and Nick, can you work for $1.50 an hour like Xiao Ye Ling? No? So sorry. Here's 2 weeks pay. Good luck! And doesn't that suck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Exactly. Why? Check it out. because..... it's cheap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 http://qz.com/479639/walmart-and-other-us-companies-are-starting-to-feel-the-full-effect-of-minimum-wage-increases/ They even specifically named my supposedly ridiculous chicken example. Lo and behold they are still making a profit. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Right. And how were they to derive those increases? Profits? Oh, yes. Profits! And how were they going to realize higher profits? By paying less in labor? Oh, yes. Less in labor! Hey, Johnny and Nick, can you work for $1.50 an hour like Xiao Ye Ling? No? So sorry. Here's 2 weeks pay. Good luck! And doesn't that suck! That's the first concession you've made in a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.