Best 15" Subwoofer

[jason str]

For the most part good direct radiator sub have very low distortion and distortion is not a factor in sub selection.  The LMS, UM 18, SI subs to name a few have very low distortion.  Database.com likes numbers under 10%.  Most people can't tell the difference at 10% and when you drop down to 5%, 99 percent of people can't hear it in the subwoofer passband.  Also, the distortion number don't go high with  subs until very high spl are pushed.  Most of us are not listening at 120+ db everyday. I do agree that you must pick the right sub/s for the job and most of us don't know how to do that when we first get into this hobby.  Which is why some of us have been thru a few subs.

 

An interesting thing is to incorporate a 2 way bass system for HT or even music.  Due to the room, ect. a MBM can feel in some hole for increase dynamics.  The problem with subs that get low is that they struggle higher up in the passband due to impedance.  The problem with subs good for music is they struggle down low.  An MBM will over lap this region to an extent for either sub type and increase dynamics.

 

Most people have no idea they are listening to distortion and may not be able to hear the difference but those of us that do are the 1%.

 

When i go around to friends homes i can clearly hear the difference, no cheap junk either.

[jason str]

 

For the most part good direct radiator sub have very low distortion and distortion is not a factor in sub selection.  The LMS, UM 18, SI subs to name a few have very low distortion.  Database.com likes numbers under 10%.  Most people can't tell the difference at 10% and when you drop down to 5%, 99 percent of people can't hear it in the subwoofer passband.  Also, the distortion number don't go high with  subs until very high spl are pushed.  Most of us are not listening at 120+ db everyday. I do agree that you must pick the right sub/s for the job and most of us don't know how to do that when we first get into this hobby.  Which is why some of us have been thru a few subs

 

http://www.axiomaudio.com/distortion

 

This was actually a scientific experiment.  They found that people just can't tell the difference when it comes to sub-bass frequencies.  

 

"At 40 Hz, listeners accepted 100% distortion before they complained."

 

Think about that.  Then realize we're talking about the idea that less than 3% distortion at 40 hz, at 117 decibels, just isn't anywhere near good enough.  

 

 

I guarantee most of these people are listening to Bose radios through their i pad and would not know distortion if it came out and slapped them in the back of the head.

 

Take people into this experiment who are living with very low distortion horns and get back to me.

Edited April 28, 2016 by jason str

[jason str]

 

Large room for Simplexx ? Build the ported version

I guess I just don't understand why you would purposely get a cabinet that is tuned way higher than a huge chunk of the material you'd be listening to, forcing it to cover most of the bottom octave with the driver being unloaded in terms of the port, then stick it in a big room and call it "the best". Port tunings for home theater are commonly below 20 hz nowadays. That Simplexx design is going to have a hard time keeping up with that.

 

 

The best has more to it than below 20 Hz frequency response unless that is absolutely all you care about.

 

I like my subs to blend well with the mains, this to me is most important.

 

Seamless transition is key, i don't want to listen to slop when my mains roll off to the subwoofer.

 

Tune too low and that is what you end up with, there is no free lunch.

 

Like i mentioned previously these Simplexx subs are BFM entry level models and still stand above the competition.

[mustang guy]

I don't want to change the subject, but I had a very interesting correspondence with Nathan Funk today. The easiest thing to do is cut and paste:

 

my email to him:

 

You built a huge enclosure for data-bass.com a few years back. It was the flattest sub they ever measured. Did you ever build any more? I know the drivers are still available from RE audio. In looking at your website, that sub isn't even shown which really blows my mind. It could be well the best sub ever built.

 

his response:

 

Yes that was a good unit for the 10-30hz range, although it was very large and not very good over 30hz. We have done some custom projects that were better overall, for example we built this quad 18”. http://www.funkaudio.ca/store/p23/Funk_Audio_Subwoofer_-_Quadzilla.html compared to that ported XXX sub it was smaller and had roughly the same output 10-25hz, but exceeded it by ~12db 40hz up.

 

There is one picture of that XXX ported subwoofer on our gallery page.

 

If your looking at the burst tests you will see a nice flat line, that means it max output is equal across the range, but at each frequency it was given a different amount of power to get that output, so that does not represent the actual frequency response, if you scroll down you will see the frequency response is far from flat and has a large hump around 20-30hz.

 

We do have some current driver designs available, that we build in house, we can use for custom projects that would work in a large ported enclosure like that and for roughly the same cost match or exceed that XXX subwoofer under 30hz, with more over 30hz, and have much flatter natural response. Don’t go by the listed value on databass for that subwoofer, the enclosure cost significantly more than that.

 

my response back to him: 

 

Thanks for the reply. You definitely educated me on the data-bass page. The RE xxx sub is anything but flat, you are right. Just so you know, I wasn't shopping for a sub. I was just looking at that website and thought you should take advantage of it if you built the best sub ever. Just helping out my fellow man, as they say.

 

Your products are beautiful. Your craftmanship reminds me of Greg Robert's at Volti Audio. 

 

Cheers

[jason str]

 

 

The 15 Simplex sub is a -3db at 25Hz

 

He's probably getting those numbers in a room in a corner too, which is seemingly how his horns are measured.  That's just a pretty high tuning for home theater nowadays, you're throwing away a lot of material.  Probably great for music.  Ported home theater subs need to dig a little deeper in my opinion.  

 

It's actually a half space measurement. The box is actually tuned to 35Hz, which is what happened to work best for his design. All of the Simplexx graphs are here: http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=20963

 

 

The Simplexx 15 pro sound subwoofer is tuned to 35 Hz, not the home theater version.

[mustang guy]

 

 

 

The 15 Simplex sub is a -3db at 25Hz

 

He's probably getting those numbers in a room in a corner too, which is seemingly how his horns are measured.  That's just a pretty high tuning for home theater nowadays, you're throwing away a lot of material.  Probably great for music.  Ported home theater subs need to dig a little deeper in my opinion.  

 

It's actually a half space measurement. The box is actually tuned to 35Hz, which is what happened to work best for his design. All of the Simplexx graphs are here: http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=20963

 

 

The Simplexx 15 pro sound subwoofer is tuned to 35 Hz, not the home theater version.

 

I didn't know there were two Simplexx 15 subs. Thanks.

[derrickdj1]

Once again it comes down to picking the right sub for the job you want it to do.  This will take care of blending with the main, keep the sound nice and clean.  More and more people are using different subs in the bass system to achieve their goal.  For example,  if a sub that goes real low and peters out above 35 or 40 Hz compared to another sub that does not go low, a MBM ( mid bass module) in the system may be needed or large capable mains that can fill-in.  MBM  usually cover 40- 50 to 250 Hz

 

Many people just think of getting a big bad sub and the correct way is to design your bass system to compliment your other gear.   Small bookself speakers with big HT sub that may lack a little ump  above 40 Hz will have a hole in the FR for that chest slam.

 

The hard part is knowing what you want and how to get there.  This takes a lot of work, reading and demoing various types of subwoofers.  Also factor in the room size and locations to help design the bass system.  Talking about sub is one thing but, talking about the bass system is another and takes into consideration a lot of other factor.  For the most part there is no one type of sub that is good, great or bad, it may just be in the wrong system of.

 

A lot of people want subs with low extension.  This may not be what is needed.  The AVS forum has been looking at what TR(tactile response) people are getting in the HT.  Surprisingly, some of the best rooms have vented subs without the ultra low extension.  Getting a set of speakers is easy but, the bass system takes a bit more thought.

Edited April 28, 2016 by derrickdj1

[Paducah Home Theater]

C mon man..... here the pb13 costs 2100€... too much money

How about these then if you really want the best.

http://www.wisdomaudio.com/products_sts.php

350 pound $10,000 transmission line. 130 db at 20 hz. That's not in-room response.

http://www.wilsonaudio.com/products/thors-hammer

545 pounds, $21,000. Flat to 16 hz, average in-room response is down to 10 hz.

Both use 15's.

Edited April 28, 2016 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[RoboKlipsch]

 

C mon man..... here the pb13 costs 2100€... too much money

How about these then if you really want the best.

http://www.wisdomaudio.com/products_sts.php

350 pound $10,000 transmission line. 130 db at 20 hz. That's not in-room response.

http://www.wilsonaudio.com/products/thors-hammer

545 pounds, $21,000. Flat to 16 hz, average in-room response is down to 10 hz.

Both use 15's.

 

Now I'm waiting for which irritatingly fortunate member comes on here saying they have 2 of those....lol need a forklift to bring them in!

[Paducah Home Theater]

Now I'm waiting for which irritatingly fortunate member comes on here saying they have 2 of those....lol need a forklift to bring them in!

I've seen one of those Wilsons in Nashville, I was told that a guy in Owensboro KY has two.

[jason str]

One of those outrageous priced subs is bigger than a double 8" Table Tuba LS and the other bigger than a Tuba 60.

 

Way out of the OP's price range but its nice to see some just throw money away on things like this.

 

It would be nice to have an unlimited budget build just to see what i could do with my skills.

[Paducah Home Theater]

lol need a forklift to bring them in!

I've wondered about that Wilson. My box weighs 800 pounds but it's kind of modular, I brought it in one piece at a time, just not an issue with some help. Packing that Wilson in all in one piece? Holy cow.

[Scrappydue]

Now I'm waiting for which irritatingly fortunate member comes on here saying they have 2 of those....lol need a forklift to bring them in!

I've seen one of those Wilsons in Nashville, I was told that a guy in Owensboro KY has two.

i demo'ed that Thor hammer sub along with a Alexandria top of the line wilsons. All Boulder audio equipment. Transparent audio cables. Was like a 1.3 million dollar 2.1 setup. Should have saw the guys face when I put my disc in which had ac/dc, some bullet for my Valentine, and even a couple hip hop songs. Lol I left unimpressed but it could have been my brain putting that big fat price sticker in with it and just thought who would be that stupid? Lol.

[mustang guy]

I'd just throw down the cash for a pair of Danley THT 812's and call it a day. 146db continuous output. They are 5' x 5' x 2' 4" and weigh in at 42 stones. Who even knows how much they cost, but I bet $20,000 wouldn't come close.

[Paducah Home Theater]

My vote for the best 15 within a reasonable cost would probably be an Acoustic Elegance 15 with two 18" passive radiators. Supposed to hang with most any 18 in terms of output down low but also have finesse. Le on those is next to nothing, very good upper midbass extension. Of course this isn't something you can easily buy, kinda have to build it.

Edited April 29, 2016 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[Jay L]

I don't think you can find a better sub than the R-115SW for the same price. Lots of good DIY solutions out there too. A horn sub that fits in a regular house, I call BS if you want anything of authority under 35Hz. 

[Paducah Home Theater]

We are kinda confusing the OP here. For 90% movies as stated, with everything else being Reference as stated, you can't go wrong with the R-115SW. I was rattling dishes pretty hard from 60 feet and 3 rooms away with two of them, in a house that has insulation in all interior walls and two layers of the stuff in the ceiling. Just silly good output from 20-25 hz and a very easy solution.

[jason str]

I don't think you can find a better sub than the R-115SW for the same price. Lots of good DIY solutions out there too. A horn sub that fits in a regular house, I call BS if you want anything of authority under 35Hz. 

 

I have built many different types of horn loaded subwoofers, even a budget sub $100 15" driver in one of these makes your R-115SW sound like a child's toy.

[derrickdj1]

Ok guys I'm up for hosting a sub shootout,  Jason brings some horns, Jay the Klipsch, l have some DIY an we can see who else might be interested.  This is the only real way to settle things.    Just like the Old Wild Wild West, he, he.

[jason str]

Anybody is welcome to come by here to compare subwoofers but my THTLP is not exactly easy to move so it stays put.

 

Maybe somebody closer can enlighten Jay so he can hear for himself.