AndyKubicki Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 After reading the post here about the DVD-A, it has become apparent to me the hi-res DVD-A is only compatible with multi-channel, is this correct? Wouldn't that mean that the only quality digital realm in 2 channel would be SACD? Or are there other XACD compatible with 2 channel? I'm fighting going back to vinyl... ------------------ Andy 78 Khorns w/ALK (20' apart!) Audire Difet 3 Preamp Adcom GFA 535 II NAD 4130 Tuner Marantz CD 63SE Pioneer DV 434s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 Andy the fight all over except the final knockout which will be when the needle touches the LP with the awesome Scott phono section delivering the final punch LOL !!!! Craig ------------------ HH Scott 299 Amp HH Scott LT-110B Tuner HH Scott P-87 Turn Table JVC JL-F50 Turn Table Sony CDP-CA7ES CD Drive 1985 Walnut Heresey I W/Layne Audio Woofers KSW-15 Subs>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted September 20, 2002 Author Share Posted September 20, 2002 Yeah, just remember the creaking of chairs which I thought was dust! C'mon...it's bad enough you got me to try tubes...now I gotta spring for a TT! You're killin me! BTW Craig, I sent you the cool pen cause I thought it would push my amp to the front of the line, but you didn't buy...you, sir, are incorruptable! ------------------ Andy 78 Khorns w/ALK (20' apart!) Audire Difet 3 Preamp Adcom GFA 535 II NAD 4130 Tuner Marantz CD 63SE Pioneer DV 434s>c> This message has been edited by AndyKub on 09-20-2002 at 09:14 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 Andy, It did push me some. I did test it out for you !! Its not going to take that long for me to get it done. All depends on how long these others take. I've had the one I'm working on now for almost a month waiting on parts the other one isn't going to require as much work and I've had it for 2 weeks. As you can see I'm forced to take care of them first. If we all didn't know each other I might be able to sneak you in but its not the case LOL !! Also your amp is laid out completely different then all the others I've worked on. Its basically the same but everything is rearranged to allow for the extra adjustment pots and the tubes mounted behind the transformers. I have to trace everything down so its not going to be a quicky. although I like doing a different layout it put a little flavor in the job. Craig PS now go out and buy you a nice TT its going to happen just give in to the temptation!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted September 21, 2002 Author Share Posted September 21, 2002 I was kidding about the pen That was to show my appreciation for you doing it, really! Take yer time...I know it's all quality work! And you still are, sir, incorruptable! I remember the noise the needle hitting the groove would make, and it was not musical! But somehow, I think you might still make me curious enough to try...darn it! All those vinyls I have, just sitting in boxes...they're calling my name... Seriously, I would like to find a good digital source as I think they are getting closer to the quality of vinyl as technology improves. I know, everyone's going to jump in and say it's not close enough, but I like some of the advantages of digital, such as no dust clicks, total silence between tracks or during quiet passages, no dust clicks, no degradation with each use, no dust clicks, and so on. And no dust noise! ------------------ Andy 78 Khorns w/ALK (20' apart!) Audire Difet 3 Preamp Adcom GFA 535 II NAD 4130 Tuner Marantz CD 63SE Pioneer DV 434s>c> This message has been edited by AndyKub on 09-21-2002 at 02:51 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 Andy, I may get hammered for this statement. But here goes I have a older Sony ES CD changer 5 disc and it sounds real nice for the $ spent cost me $100 on ebay. CD's really aren't all that bad unless you listen to 80s versions which are horrible !! Newer stuff is real good. I still prefer Vinyl though heck I love to hear the needle hit the record I even like the sound of the stylus being cleaned Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 A number of DVD-A's have a 2-channel stereo format in addition to the 6-channel 96khz/24 bit format. Most of the 2-channel formats are 192khz/24 bit, which is even higher resolution than the multi-channel version. These discs also come with a multi-channel DTS version, as well as DD 5.1... Mike This message has been edited by Mike Lindsey on 09-21-2002 at 08:23 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 The original question: DVD-A and CD's. Don't know whether you saw any of the thread, but we discussed this extensively a few weeks back. I've built an audio server at a total cost of around 800.00 that, in my own opinion, can't be matched at the price by any CD player or DVD-A alone. Random access to 280 uncompressed CD's, 24/96 recording, etc. The 24/96 recordings from LP's are comparable only to Lp's transferred to 15ips reel to reel with DBX encoding...which is both very expensive and a bit impracticle today. CD playback, for me, finally reached something I look forward to rather than wish I had in LP. I've a Sony ES changer as well...and it does not compare. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Come taste muh' Klipsch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudret Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 Andy, I am no expert by any measure but I would say go and get yourself a TT. I have a Sony 775 SACD player and I was quite happy with it. Recently I got a Marantz 6200 TT from a garage sale and about 40 records and I can't get enough of listening to them. Now I intend to get a better cartridge and start collecting records. Surely you get the dust clicks and all that but that's a small price to pay in exchange for the sweet sound you get. That's my 2cents anyway. -kudret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 Grab the beautiful, 30 pound, 2-channel only, Sony 9000ES while you can. I get to hear LP's about once a month. It's a nice, polite, flat, kind of sound. No thanks. Someone explain this to me: You all isten to speakers that reproduce music with almost no compression, then use a medium/source that has lots of compression. I agree with Craig, the new recordings sound great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 "I get to hear LP's about once a month. It's a nice, polite, flat, kind of sound. No thanks." That's about the strangest comment I've ever heard about the LP. As to dynamic range, that of the LP is greater than most listening rooms are capable. In my case, background noise is very low, about 30db, and I use a DBX 117 to increase dynamic range. After 25 years, I can pretty well set it with no more thought than to the volume control. All but a handful of the very finest pressings benefit. The LACK of compression on a CD certainly doesn't make up for the music that is not, nor cannot ever, be there due to the specified limitations of the medium. I have 78's that sound better than any but the very finest CD's. Granted, all of us are looking for something different and I've learned on this forum that there are as many tastes in equipment, media, and booze as there are list members. Vive la difference... In my case, here I am vintage in listening tastes and equipment, but see 2 channel only as being only dual mono. I prefer the sound of my DynaQuad pulling the ambience off the LPs for a third dimension. BTW, there also seems to be far less ambience on CD's. I really don't have a technical explanation for this. Don't know anything about the nature of digital that should affect out of phase information. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Come taste muh' Klipsch! This message has been edited by Mallett on 09-21-2002 at 12:59 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted September 21, 2002 Author Share Posted September 21, 2002 Dave, I think you're talking about your CDeluxe...I was looking at that card for my MIDI recording, but did notice it would make a hell of a great A/D converter for making CDs from LPs or tapes. But that would still bring in the noise (dust, scratches, etc). I have some old tapes (assuming the iron oxide has not fallen off) of my old band and would eventually love to transfer to HD, and that card would be excellent for that. For commercial CDs I was looking more for something like SACD, the assumption (may or may not be correct on my part) being that it gets closer to the good sound of vinyl without the downside. Are you saying that even plain CDs sound better played on your server? Craig, someone was telling me that the better Sony SACD will sound better than the cheap on I took back to Best Buy...it was their bottom line SACD. Maybe some merit to this. You're right about the recording quality of those early CDs...I guess the rush was to just get that stuff onto CDs, and in the rush, quality went out the door. Perhaps that was by design, as many are now coming out with remastered editions of same CDs, which of course, you just HAVE TO get if it's your favorite bands. Then again, SACD is the same thing...keeps the wheels of business turning, and our wallets emptying! Mike, sounds like you're saying that only some of the DVD-As are 2 channel, so maybe SACD is better in the 2 channel regard. I'm staynig in the 2 channel realm (after all, we're having waaaay too much fun here!). Kudret, that 775 looks too close to the one I tried, it has the HDTV abilities, so maybe the same SACD processor, and I was not impressed with it. But I am curious what a better SACD (but not costing over $800) would sound like. I will eventually get suckered into trying vinyl again, I'm sure... ------------------ Andy 78 Khorns w/ALK (20' apart!) Audire Difet 3 Preamp Adcom GFA 535 II NAD 4130 Tuner Marantz CD 63SE Pioneer DV 434s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted September 21, 2002 Author Share Posted September 21, 2002 Dean, I was just on the Sony site and 9000 ES did not come up on a search... Just found a few on eBay. You have one and are happy with it? ------------------ Andy 78 Khorns w/ALK (20' apart!) Audire Difet 3 Preamp Adcom GFA 535 II NAD 4130 Tuner Marantz CD 63SE Pioneer DV 434s>c> This message has been edited by AndyKub on 09-21-2002 at 01:19 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 "Are you saying that even plain CDs sound better played on your server?" Yes. Though I've not heard one, seems about the only competition is perhaps from Rega Planet at about the same price. However, it doesn't allow random access, 24/96 recording, etc. so I don't think it a valid comparison. I'll repeat: This is the first CD rig I've had that I can get any enjoyment from beyond background music. As to the pops and ticks, properly cared for LP's have only a minimum to begin with. Beyond that, truly great music at great resolution causes them to disappear. My brain has a really great pop and tick removal system that is truly transparent in operation. AAMOF, one of my wife's and my favorite records is a 192? recording of Rhapsody in Blue with Gershwin and Whiteman's band. It is in TERRIBLE shape physically, but the performance and liveness of the thing makes it by far and away the best RinB we own...and my wife probably has about 20 versions. If the music ain't there, nothing else counts. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Come taste muh' Klipsch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 Andy, I think over 95% (maybe even higher than that) of them have a high-res 2-channel format in addition to the high-res 6-channel format. Bear in mind, this needs to be via the analog outputs and not the digital output. In addition, a majority of the DVD-A's also come with a DTS and/or DD 5.1 format that utilize the digital cable... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 Andy, It blows my mind that anyone would sell one after owning it. It sounds that good. They are discontinued, but Crutchfield still has some. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-UTj9gfU7STC/cgi-bin/prodview.asp?i=158DVP9KES Keep in mind -- two channel only, no multi-channel capability. The funny thing about the DV9000ES is that it was developed by the video guys at Sony, not the audio guys -- and sounds better than any of the decks the audio side of the house has put out. Go to the Asylum and run a search on '9000ES'. I also posted a lengthy two part review which you can find under the 'Product Reviews' link. Dave, I think it's strange that you think my comment regarding the flat sound of LP strange. Compared to CD, it is definitely 'flat' sounding. Also, most folks don't use Dynamic Range Expanders. The LACK of compression on a CD certainly doesn't make up for the music that is not, nor cannot ever, be there due to the specified limitations of the medium. I have 78's that sound better than any but the very finest CD's. A difference of opinion here. Since I listen to mostly Rock music which is for the most part electrified, I don't miss much harmonic information to begin with. For me, I'm willing to trade some upper harmonic information for the lack of compression. I still think, and will always think -- that this debate is caused more by differences in speakers, rooms, musical preferences, etc - than the actual mediums. In my case, here I am vintage in listening tastes and equipment, but see 2 channel only as being only dual mono. I prefer the sound of my DynaQuad pulling the ambience off the LPs for a third dimension. BTW, there also seems to be far less ambience on CD's. I really don't have a technical explanation for this. Don't know anything about the nature of digital that should affect out of phase information. I don't really understand this either. It's a bizarre observation on your part. How does the Dynaquad actually work? No extra amp right? Just extra terminals for the rear speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 "I think it's strange that you think my comment regarding the flat sound of LP strange. Compared to CD, it is definitely 'flat' sounding. Also, most folks don't use Dynamic Range Expanders." I may not understand what you mean by "flat." The first time I dropped a needle on a top notch LP after 10 years of CD's, I felt as if the floodgates of music had been reopened and the desert bloomed. How's that for hyperbole? :-> Anyway, I kind of figured you were rock centric. Your comments are correct in that area. Lots of rock sounds just fine as MP3, while there is very little else that doesn't lose it's soul in that process. As to dynamic range on LP, bear in mind that there is a LOT of repertoire (chamber music, for example) with less dynamic range than the LP can deliver, and, as you mentioned, a dynamic range expander in the hands of a person with the experience to set it properly handles the rest. I've Nitty Gritty Dirt Band "Circle" in both LP and CD. The CD is excellent, one of the better ones...but the the LP is all that plus what the CD cannot capture by it's one physical limitations. As to the DynaQuad, it simply uses phase cancellation to enhance that reflected information which reached the mics later (out of phase) with the primary signal then sends it to the rear. Totally effective on some recordings, never an issue on those with less ambient information. As to why CD's seem to have less out of phase information, it is a mystery. Seems out of phase info would be encoded right along with everything else. ------------------ David A. Mallett Come taste muh' Klipsch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted September 21, 2002 Author Share Posted September 21, 2002 Dean, I just read your reviews...you're an awsome writer! You mentioned bass response was not as strong in the Sony, and I wonder if a tweak can help this. There are several 9000ES on ebay for under $800. But before I get one, I need to sell off some things on eBay, you know, wife, family, financial needs and obligations...why do these things have to get in the way??!! ------------------ Andy 78 Khorns w/ALK (20' apart!) Audire Difet 3 Preamp Adcom GFA 535 II NAD 4130 Tuner Marantz CD 63SE Pioneer DV 434s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 The problem with saving a couple hundred off of ebay is that you give up the 5 year warranty. 5 years is a long time. I could have bought one off of Audiogon for around $800 as well -- but decided with something as potentially finicky as a CD/DVD/SACD player, I wanted the warranty. The 9000ES was lean in the bass as compared to my then fully broken in Anthem CD-1. The review was written with an out of the box unit. Since that time, I have made several changes in my system (finishing my upgrade path for now), with the DJH versions of the AE-25 and AE-3, I'm actually running WITHOUT a sub again. The SVS 20-39+/Samson 1000 are sitting in a corner waiting on me to stand up the DQ-10's. Whatever bass problem I thought the 9000 had then, it's certainly not bothering me now. I don't recognize the model of your preamp. Is it solid state or tubed? Looks like you have the smaller Adcom. This is actually a good thing, as the transistors are not doubled up on each side. It probably sounds pretty good. If your preamp is solid state, you might seriously consider selling it, and putting the money with the $800 you are thinking about spending. I would split the money up between a good used tubed preamp, and another player. You might not get the quality of the 9000, but overall -- you would have a much better sound. If you weren't running Heritage I wouldn't say this. Figure $600 for the preamp, and $400 for the player. You might be able to get one of the original Rega Planets, or a newer Sony 555es. Just trying to muddy the waters a little Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 Dean: Forgot to mention in my previous post that I fully agree with you about mostly electrified music. Midnight Oil "Diesel and Dust" is one of my favorite CD's, and I do not think vinyl would do much for it. There are several others that fit that category. However, when it comes to a Stradivarius, a grand pipe organ, acoustic guitar, jazz, piano, etc (ESPECIALLY piano), I always sense something missing except with vinyl. Personally, I feel the CD vs. whatever debate is pretty much a waste of time. Every message has its medium, and when done properly will deliver satisfaction. As many on the list know, I am not a "wine taster" level audiophile. I couldn't tell one capacitor from another or magic cable from plain copper if my life depended on it. However, I know great music when I hear, from whatever source. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Come taste muh' Klipsch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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