maxg Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Into thinking that a stereo (or multi-channel setup) was the real thing. I got this from another forum where there is an interesting discussion going on regarding the above. I have only ever been fooled by speaking voices (on Roger Water's Live and in the flesh SACD for example where voices suddenly erupted from one of the rear speakers and I thought someone was coming through the patio doors). Sadly, despite my pride in my system, it has never fooled me into thinking it is the real thing - even in dreamy late night states when I lose track of where I am. Anyone been dupped by their own system or someone else's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 This is a common occurance with SET amps when in the other room or where voices in the background on live recordings will sound so spooky real, you get up and walk into the room. Late night sessions in the sweet spot when the power grid usage is low and the noise floor down to vanishing levels, good live recordings can weigh in with striking realism that brings your hair standing up on the back of your neck. I have had more than a handful people who come to hear my system make comments relating to the "performers sounding as if they are standing right there" as their eyes take on that glazed look in shock. The only type of amplifier I have ever heard do achieve this to realistic levels are single-ended triode amps which bring this subtlety and inner detail that is uncanny and like nothing else in the amplification world. On small group acoustic recordings that are well recorded, especially in a live venue, the results can be spell-binding. Of course, your entire system needs to be synergistic at this level. But when it comes to roost, it is amazing. You know things are working when the little hairs start to standup in places you didnt know you HAD as your eyes are telling you one thing and your ears another. I have loved music with other types of amplification, even bringing in more "boogie" factor as PP tubes can do. But for uncanny, life-like realism, the single-ended triode has no peers. IT is their greatest strength and also their magnetic pull once you have had them setup correctly in home. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 I've gotten that with a good movie track in DTS and all seven channels cranking. The bullets and choppers and explosions ... well, you expect that ... But if it's a movie and the scene is a ****tail party and someone drops a glass "behind" you, I've flinched and then laughed when I realized what happened. I have a 2 year old, and on a subconscious level, part of me is always tracking his whereabouts and what he's getting into ... or what's going to fall on him next The one I really HATE is when the FM radio station you're listening to while buzzing down 128 outside of Boston (known internationally for its high speed maniacs) plays a police/ambulance siren as part of its sound effects. I look every which way only to realize that I've been s u c k ered (good one Tim, I'm going to remember this M.O.). Hey, Kelly, nice to see a pic of you finally. I'll have to keep my wife away from this board; she has a long fascination with men with thick, dark hair (mine is now half gone). Segue -- for all you guys out there with young children (1-1/2 and over) ... Tired of trips for $20 haircuts where the kid flips out after 2 minutes in the chair? Get a (dare I say it?) Flowbee. Sixty bucks and you can cut your kid's hair in two minutes, and it looks better than what they can do by hand. My (almost) three year old cuts his own hair (and I touch it up around the ears) and has a blast doing it. I have a good friend who's owns a shop and he commented on Jack's haircut about a year ago. I told him what I did (on a whim) and he laughed himself silly. I dropped in his shop six months ago to drop off some wine for his birthday; guess what he had hanging next to his hairdryers? He said he uses it almost solely on kids and has them in/out in less than five minutes and charges the parents half price because it's so fast. Man, I guess I need to get a life, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 "When I play Dina Krall's Stepping Out 2000, I am close to audio perfection. This disc, more than any other, has taken me there. I am near the mountain top. I am able to suspend disbelief. If only for a moment, for those delicious seconds, with this stereo, in this dark room, I am able to believe that she and her band are there. Not in the room, but somehow just beyond my front wall. The cymbals shimmer. Her voice sounds the way I heard it last spring. The bass is full and natural. The drums have whack and snap. In fact, at night with the lights down low, after the amplifier tubes are warm, the dial tipped slightly higher than normal, I sit in the sweet spot and swoon to her masterful crooning and deliberate plinking. I am entertained in no small way. It is something so right that I smile with amusement. I do not know if I am truly a jazz fan. But I do know that I can not get enough of the soft brushing of the cymbals, the strident, deep vibrations of the forcefully plucked bass notes, or the fast snaps of the snare. More than once, road weary from the driving of life, I have slipped into the nether world reverie which tweaking audiophiles seek as the nirvana for their systems and their souls. I could swear this disc has lulled me into that half-sleep where my brain waves sink to an Alpha state, my mind refreshes itself and my closed eyes move in tiny motions. More than once, I woke sharply from that somatic bliss, startled by some one speaking. Only to realize that the voice I hear in the dark, as real as can be, is only Diana and the beginning of a new track. Either the road of life is getting longer, or the combination of that clean recording, along with her precise and articulate phrasing of vocals and instrumentation, makes for a deliciously realistic reproduction of the "real" thing." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Wow, and I thought s e x was fun !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Happens on occasion. Very strange to look into a horn, but "see" right through it as though IT were intangible and there is a musician just beyond. The strangest condition under which this has occurred is with my badly worn and damaged Gershwin/Whiteman 78 of Rhapsody in Blue. The bass sax at one point is there, just beyond the back of the speaker. All that noise and crackling can do absolutely nothing to spoil that magic. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Colin, just think when you get some REAL SET amps! heh.... Have you had a chance to bring some other options in your system? Those little Paramours are great little amps but really made to a price point. Wondering if you have had any tube rectified SETs with more top notch transformers? The transformers are where ole Doc really had to skimp here but those amps seem to be hard to beat for the price point. Have you heard the Paraglows or any other alternatives ala Welborne, Wright, Wavelength, etc? If only Ms. Krall had the soul and substance of a Billie or Sarah Vaughan... Nice recordings though. Like Barber and others, the backing bands and arrangements just seem a bit more lite in comparison; "Look of Love" was a tremendous disappointment. Barber's "Cafe Blue" is also a fine one to hear your system, if not on a purely music-wie level. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Dave, actually, you shouldnt be really having the sound come from the actual speakers (except in certain recordings). The speakers should disappear with the music spread between, back, and somewhat beyond the outside edges. If the instruments appear bunched up or coming directly from the actual speaker, there is usually amp/setup problems. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Jeez, MH, what are you trying to do to my wet dream? :-> Actually, I was describing an actual experience where I got up and walked right up to the speaker. It would certainly be strange if the sound didn't come from it under those conditions... My PAW has experienced the same thing, as she is the "Rhapsody in Blue" performance in our family and that ol' 78 is her nonpareil version. I've a pretty decent, though a bit positionally iffy, center "ghost" source from mono now with the Cornwall center, and much better general imaging. I think a La Scala would be a bit better as it is a little more efficient (my center is passive) and am looking for a "steal" on a pair along with another DFW area forum member with the same issue. Really nothing I can do about the back wall being about 4 feet too close, at least until the bucks are available to build my perfect listening room. I have already drawn the plans...just takes money. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Man, you are really one of the lucky few if you get to design your own listening room! I envy you here. There is A LOT written on the subject and some great research would really pay off here in this once in a lifetime (or hometime as it were) chance. I am really limited by space restrictions in all ways. Perhaps someday. Any ideas on your basic design? kh systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOZ Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 I forget which movie, but there were four of us in the room and we were all fooled and thought there was something like mice in the ceiling. Very weird experience, but very cool. Sean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 It's probably a way off. I've got a 9 month old to get to age three before I can go back to work. We are a no child care until age three family and that means half income until then. While not far below, children are still ahead of audio... It will have all corners available due to a luck positioning with the existing structure and include home theatre...though the HT will be a secondary function to audio with most viewing still taking place in the LR. I've no intention of subverting the glories of music to the needs of the boob tube. Say, what was that idea distancing for K'horn imaging we discussed a while back? I'd like to check my dimensions against it. Where would the ideal position be for K'horns at 26 feet apart? Seems like there was more to it than the simple triangulation one would assume. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardre Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 I have been fooled more times than I would like to admit. Primarily with a DTS flick. Naturally, the missus is duped far more often than me....I have seen her jump out of her skin at a sudden loud rear noise, get up in disgust and proclaim "I hate these damn speakers", and stomp out to watch a 'Law and Order' rerun on 'regular' TV. Go figure. The dogs are another source of entertainment with a well recorded DTS soundtrack. Usually they just lay there suffering through it, but every now and then...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 chris, I know what you mean, every time a phone rings on a TV show I get up to answer it...... -C&S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 oops....a double post.... don't forget to click on the avatar for the ongoing art show. -C&S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 I have been fooled by both my 2 channel and my HT rigs. In the case of 2 channel, it is most likely that it will be a sudden sound like a rim shot on a drum etc. that makes you think it was real. I have a Willie Nelson CD "Red Headed Stranger" that I played for a friend who is a huge WN fan and has seen him live many many times. He said he could swear Willie was in the room. I have also heard sounds from behind me when it is only 2 channel and no walls or anything behind me for 10-15'. I have had folks outside think a live band was playing in the basement. HT is a bit different, rear channel effects can have that startling effect. The first 5.1 channel movie we watched was the remake of "Cape Fear". There is a scene where the family is on the house boat and a storm sends sheets of rain against the windows. My wife and I both whipped around to check our windows. Pretty cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Clipped, it that part of your art collection? I'm an art ignoramus (I missed taking "Art in the Dark" at BU ... who's sorry now?) ... it's pretty cool. Just enough out at the edge to make it fun to ponder, real enough for the right synapses to connect. Our art is mostly rural river or ocean scenes. Soothing to look at. We have a "traditional" home -- I grew up in one, then went through a modern "post and beam" period, and have come back to Colonial in 1994. Problem with the Colonial design is that the rooms are typically either small and square or long and narrow. As Kelly submits, "maybe in the future (a new home) ..." We're looking towards AZ (Tucson) in about three years and I've been browsing real estate there on-line. The thing I find fascinating is that there are precious FEW folks with basements (can be an ideal listening room without the windows) and even fewer with rooms with corners that would lend themselves to our hobby. Can you say, "west wing?" It may be a "buy land and build" deal, in which case it will be fun watching this board assist in the listening room design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Chris, Are you from AZ? I grew up in Phoenix and will be retiring in Phx, Mesa or Chandler area (½ time anyway-other ½ in N. Indiana or Chicago area) in 3 or 4 years. Most folks don't have basements out there because it is too hard to dig one! A decent partial basement works with a house on a sloped lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanJ Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 C&S, like the artwork. Picasso'sh! Self portrait maybe??? Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Ed, no, I'm not ... but I lived in Tucson during my formative years (78-80) and really liked it. My wife, whom I met later on, is from Tucson and her dad, a retired USAF Colonel, lives there. He's our last remaining parent and we're thinking it would be a good thing to be out there. How to make a living? Ah, that is the question. New England is expensive as sin, so we would probably bail out of here and downsize to a nice cozy place. My daughters will be college age a/o 2005, and U of A is a great school; at $3K a year, you can't beat it with a stick. As far as I'm concerned, it's more money for me to give to them when I head upstairs to meet PWK. Yeah, I know what you mean ... The architecture is suited to the land, as it should be ... but maybe I'm naive, are WE the only ones with a passion for music (random sample of people I know -- YES)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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