Chris Robinson Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 C&S, I find your comment on this to be interesting, if not a bit conflicting ... I think we take this masochistic hobby upon ourselves in the hopeful pursuit of the impossible goal, i.e., the sound becomes perfect and we have no further interest in tweaking our "stuff" to make it better. We all know in our hearts that this is akin to chasing windmills on horses ... Early on in our setups (with help from folks here), we make the big changes that result in quantum leaps in sound (Klipschorns, SET, nice TT's, clean LPs, interconnects, chiraz). After we've knocked off those sitting ducks, we spend YEARS nailing down the last 10% ... If you have no motivation to do this, as you imply, perhaps you are the fortunate one for your soul is free to simply enjoy the music while the rest of us tortured-wretched continue our futile search for the Holy Grail of sound. Fortunately, based on frequent threads, what really unites us all is a deep love of FINE SOUNDING MUSIC. There is probably a high percentage of musicians among us ... who are, coincidently, mathematically inclined as a group. Hence, the music and electrical theory make good -- and strange -- bedfellows. Ultimately, there is little satisfaction in accomplishments that are just handed to us; the good ones are the those that we work, grind, grunt and sweat for ... Don't you agree? I little wisely-chosen work on this end yields lots of satisfaction on the other! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 ---------------- On 11/17/2002 8:32:47 AM Chris Robinson wrote: Early on in our setups (with help from folks here), we make the big changes that result in quantum leaps in sound (Klipschorns, SET, nice TT's, clean LPs, interconnects, chiraz). ---------------- Couldn't agree more...having a SET of nice TT's around DOES make your records sound better. More opportunity for tweeking, too. fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 I recieved my Mats the other day I bought the set and I find using a clamp with either one problematic to say the least. What bugs me about the entire affair is that I bought them to get rid of the static cling of the felt to my records and now I have some other kind of cling all together and using the clamp really makes matters worse. I wonder of with use the cling will subside. Is there a sonic difference ?? Heck if I know. One thing I can tell you is the seller of these is making a killing. I bet it cost about 10 cents a peice to make them !! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 17, 2002 Author Share Posted November 17, 2002 The difference in STATIC cling with the terrible affect this has on playback and the cling from the Donut is HUGE. One is a pain. The other really degrades the sound. I also dont think this mat was designed for use with clamps. Still, if it sounds better, and I believe it might work to even greater affect on your mid-fi tables over the acrylic, it is worth it to me. I am just amazed that no one is hearing differences at all. This bothers me a bit as I have found serious sonic differences with ANY mat replacement, espeically with mny old 70s tables. Just going to the AQ mat on my old 70s DD table brought a major incease in sound quality. Plopping that mat on the LINN brought scrubbing from the extra weight and the spring compression .... when balanced it also brought DEAD sound. The ONLY reasonable mat I have seen that works ok on the Linn is that felt mat of Linn's(which is MORE expensive than the Donut!). The Ringmat at $90 is good but ugly as sin. And I was hoping this new Donut job would be an improvement over both as reported by others (the guy that made it was making it for his Linn). As for all DIY stuff, you can usually make it for less. That Blu-Tak putty you put between speaker and stand is 90 cents; its the same stuff you use to put your kid's pictures on the fridge! Buy if from audio chain.... $10~ kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 17, 2002 Author Share Posted November 17, 2002 For all people having footfall or isolation problems, here is an interesting DIY page on wall shelf options. Looks to be EASY to make and cheap as well. One could customize these plans to his/her needs and preferences too. http://www.theanalogdept.com/shelves_&_platforms.htm kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Mobile, I'm not sure the cling from these donuts are static I thinks its the material itself. I don't here the staic when removing it. I'm refraining from saying if there is indeed sonic difference because I have switched between to many amps here lately to say if you know what I mean. Your link to the shelf was kinda of cool because its exactly what I have except mine is sized for 2 turn tables and mounts Directly to a concrete wall !! No resonance here !! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 I'm still waiting for an amp to do the comparos ... I haven't forgotten!! Craig, I'm heading to Tucson on Saturday so don't sweat getting that amp out unless it's going out tomorrow. Please note my work address has changed to Suite 210 from 120 ... BTW, did you get that z-stat I sent along? Did it seem to do anything for you, cling- and sound-wise? I'm going to need some isolation of some sort since I'm on a pretty highly-sprung floor. Was hoping C&S had some review on the one he just ordered, but it sounds like it'll be a little time in coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Chris, Yes I recieved the Zero Stat !! Thanks Alot. As far as mailing address to save confusion send me a email with the exact place you want it shipped. I planned to pack it up tonight and ship it tomorrow. Also I need to figure where we ended up on this money wise I think you owe me a few ducats but not much. We changed from my caps to Auricaps and also I used a few more Kiwame resistors than a thought and Percy doesn't give a deal at all to speak of so were over are budget some and I think I also forgot shipping. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Thought I would update that Wally even from his warn vacation hide out is still on the ball !! He contacted his Music Hall rep which has been in contact with me. He is on the job and even called me on sunday !! There are currently out of stock of retail boxed Cartridges to replace mine and he offered to send me his demo but I declined and said just send me a new one when they get in. So Wally did not forget me he had indeed already left my info with the Rep and he was indeed trying to solve the problem. I guess the only fault with wally is that he should of made me aware of this but in the haste to get out of dodge I'm sure he was swamped. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Glad that Wally has made you whole on the deal. He's been very straight up on the phone and professional in getting things done. I just wonder how a few of these rogues got in the supply chain. If I were a dealer, I'd worry about that. There is positively no upside for the dealer, and 100% downside. Kind of like stiffing the waiter when the cook screwed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 To all of you new TT owners, as well as old TT owners. It's time to stir the pot a little for those who have the option of using their own interconnects from turntable to whatever phono section you use. This interconnect, if you have a choice, is a very important one to the sound from the turntable. Not any and every interconnect should be used here. My first flag was raised when I looked to DIY cables for an interconnect to find he had nothing suitable for the job. Additional investigation revealed a flexible connector of high quality copper, copper/silver, or silver may work best depending on the properties of your tonearm. The point is, this interconnect is a great opportunity to improve the sound coming from your turntable. Many may not believe this is important, but my experience says it is. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 17, 2002 Author Share Posted November 17, 2002 Ditto with the tonearm cable, which is why all the rash of upgrades for the arms. The Rega arms have been elevated to a whole other level with the new cable... Same with a host of other arms. It's a nightmare... kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 Wow this thread is getting big. I took my eye off it for a couple of days at it is well into page 8!!!! All of the fuss over TT mats and I forgot to ask Tony to borrow his - busy weekend all in all. Anyway - bit worried about using the clamp in conjunction with a mat that doesnt extend all the way in to the spindle - I think that might put something of a strain on the vinyl. As it happens since using the unmentionable mat I stopped using the clamp anyway - this mat is slightly higher than the felt mat so it doesn't screw on comfortably. I think I had actually stopped using it with the felt mat come to that. It seemed to make the static problem worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 That Isolation Box that I ordered way back when still has not arrived. I think the guy is a diy-er who had to whip up something in his garage. At this point I am totally satisfied with my own solution (marble slab 19" x21" x 1" thick) sitting on 4 new handballs in furniture cups which works perfectly and looks nice. Hopefully I will receive this other thing soon, but I am not impressed with the service at this point. -c7s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 18, 2002 Author Share Posted November 18, 2002 He is DEFINITELY a DIY guy and makes them himself. HAve you talked to him on the phone? I think talking to guys on the phone like this helps greatly. Give him a ring and see what's up. Perhaps say you have your own solution that is working fine and might be considering cancelling since you havent received the item. This might speed the ole shipping along! kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 We had some good conversation via email before I ordered the item, he is friendly enough. He recently mentioned that it was on its way. When it arrives I can evaluate it, and then decide if I need to keep it. If nothing else it might be something to put the Rega Planet on. Meanwhile the Technics is going to be moved to the another studio, giving me yet more space and an excuse to NOT curtail my bulk LP collecting. OK, its off to the thrift store again to find more records..... fini has proabably alread been there and scooped up all the "Organ Favorites" and Guy Lombardo,.....darn...... I may have to now specialize in Montovani......and 101 Strings......etc. Actually good things do turn up now and then..... -c7s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 18, 2002 Author Share Posted November 18, 2002 btw, do THESE ring any bells? Mambo EXPERIMENTAL AFRO COOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 Interesting. Just tried playing an album without anything on the platter - except the album itself. I dont know - maybe it is better - certainly looks cool with the all silver platter showing - and I can now use the clamp although the records dont seem to slip except when I first drop a heavy vinyl album onto the spinning platter and then only for about a third of a turn or so. The best thing is - no static. In other words all the static I has was down to the felt mat. Anyway I will leave the old rubber mat to the side for now and we will see what gives... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 18, 2002 Author Share Posted November 18, 2002 Max, there is a slight problem here in that your turntable, the Pro-Ject RPM-4, is not made with an acrylic platter, which is the platter I have been talking about using without a mat. The RPM 4 actually has an MDF platter of all thing, which might be problematic without a mat. The acrylic actually mimics a record's makeup but the MDF...well... I actually dont know WHAT that is going to mimic here. I actually would be more inclined to use the mat of some sort with this platter, to be honest. Still, it's an interesting experiement. I just want to add the diff between the Acrylic platters ans something like MDF fibreboard. I have never used my Linn without a mat of some sort (but it has an amazing two piece platter that is the majority of the cost of the table), actually using the Linn felt mat for the last 15 years or so. Still, I am going to be trying a Donut as well. With the clamp, one might opt for the STANDARD mat without the hole, although many clamps do come with an insert under the record anyway. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 Another bell rings: Rene Touzet -Clipped and Paradoxed btw, fini, I think the trouble you were having finding the turntable guy and the reason you kept coming up with all those enlargement links, I think you may have got his name mixed up. He is Underwood Wally not Underwear Woody Could be you got mixed up because of Sponge Bob. ps. I bought that organ that we passed up @ the SA. I gave them $5, took out the amp, and then told them to throw the rest away and they went for it because it had been sitting out there all month and was destined for the dump anyway. I saved the nice brass woodscrews that held the back on. It is just some generic pp 6L6 amp with a 12AU7 and a 12AX7 but has an enormous power transformer. First I thought maybe one could make a guitar or keyboard amp out of it, then I realized that it has no controls on it now that it is dismembered. Maybe just another eBay discard. With all those old LPs and 78s and stuff up there, I left with only one 50 cent record, a Decca 78: "Big Noise From Winnetka" by a duet of String Bass and Drums: {Instrumental Duet Whistling by Bob Haggart}. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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