mobile homeless Posted November 16, 2002 Author Share Posted November 16, 2002 The only reason I was talking about using thick rubber mats and isolating ringing was in 1. poor direct drive tables with the motor ATTACHED to the platter. These almost ALWAYS have METAL platters that RING. Plus with a motor ATTACHED TO THE METAL PLATTER you get the motor resonance PLUS the platter properties...a BAD THING. In this instance, the donut or even the traditional AQ rubber mat work some help 2. People started making acrylic platters for several reasons. They are cheaper to make and form and with excellent cutting can be amazingly accurate. They ALSO best mimic the properties of the VINYL RECORD. Ultimately, many believe that a you want the platter to disappear with no properties of its own. Many theorize that using the Acylic and clamping the record directly to it, best mimics this. The record and the platter become one. Also, there is certainly not a lot of RING and resonance in the traditional sense with an acrylic platter. There are many theories working here. But the double mat idea pretty much contradicts most, even if using on a cheap mid-fi direct drive deck where I think it might be too much of a good thing besides A. Adding a lot more weight for the belt drive to spin B. GREATLY increasing the height of the record which would be TERRIBLE for 99.9% of the mid-fi tables that have NO VTA adjustability. Still, many do not LIKE acrylic platters for various reasons. Linn put much of its development in their amazing two-piece platter and bearing, a joy of engineering and lovely to handle. Some feel the acyrlic platters also depart a certain sonic signature that is not always positive. ....More to come I am sure kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 you got me thinking.....maybe..... this is it: Cool Mat -c7s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 How does the sytlus know or care? I've listened to my TT for about two hours so I don't have a clue. However, if you'll allow my logic chain and speculation, a stylus only picks up what is fed into it, i.e., microvariations in the sides of the groove, or vibrations from other sources. These other sources could come a few places -- lower frequency sound waves (similar to yours when your TT was too close to your speaker), vibrations from a crummy stand and associated footfalls or floor movement, or even LP slippage against the platter. The donut would seem to be a design effort that reduces slippage and vibration transmission by its soft and tacky nature. This feels to me to be tangentially similar to placing spikes beneath speakers; they improve the speaker's ability to move its diaphragm by giving it "something to brace itself with" ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 hmmmm.....ok, let me think....maybe the vibrations of the very grooves that you are playing resonate into the material under the LP and this will be different with different materials and configurations. maybe this is the one: For A Darker Sound -c7s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 16, 2002 Author Share Posted November 16, 2002 The Ringmat cork mat and trimat are trying to DECOUPLE the record from the platter. I dont know if anyone remembers but there was actually a TT awhile back with NO PLATTER! I always thought a baby head might work here...but then again, I am not a father yet...as far as I know...heh. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 Don't you just love that MMF-7. Cannot get enough of those great soundz. With that clamp screwed on snug, I cannot imagine that LP having anything remotely like slippage. But I think I found the right mat: Spend Even More $$$ "While still on the lathe, each side is polished by hand. Note that the mat is spinning at nearly 4,000 RPM in this photo! " That is way better than 78 RPM! -c7s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 Forget everything I said, this is the one to wait for: The Emperor's New Mat -c7s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 16, 2002 Author Share Posted November 16, 2002 Dont overtighten the clamp though. Should just tight... btw, isnt it a GREAT sign that one of the biggest threads in the history of the 2 Channel forum is having to do with vinyl playback???? Says a lot of good things about the loons in here. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 Isn't it sad that all of us grown men have little better to do? Excuse me, I have some baby head to clean up. Stubborn stains just won't come out. Craig, BTW, Walter's in Hawaii ... got an email from him so he's checking them. I'm sure you'll be made whole on the deal ... hopefully you can hang in there with what you've got until he resurfaces. Damn, it's snowing -- Expecting NASTY weather in here tonight -- 1/2" of ice glaze on everything. http://www.weather.com/outlook/recreation/local/01523 Wonderful. Perfect driving weather if you've got that NOS440 in a Zamboni! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 So you are saying if I need the really large pipe wrench with a cheater bar to get it loose, that is too tight? Afterall that stylus dragging on the LP like that might cause slippage between the LP and platter. -c7s Hey, I wish it would snow here, now that I am heating the house with tube amps. Cozy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 I think the proverbial "wrench" has been tossed into the gears with that one, Clipped -- Probably time to put this thread out of its misery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 Chris, I know he is gone on Vacation. But I was garranteed it would be sent out to me earlier this week. I was nice enough to let him wait rather then open a brand new TT and send me the needle off it like he was going to do and he assured me he would get it out to me when Mr. Hall was back on the 12th. I'm sorry but no word from him or nothing is just plan bad service. I'm a pateint customer to a point !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 16, 2002 Author Share Posted November 16, 2002 I agree that Walter should have: 1. Gotten this cartridge out ASAP with big apology. He is lucky a user can do it on his OWN in the field. Many that opt for this table, cant. 2. IF not getting it out, given a PERSONAL call to Craig telling why and talking about what can be done. 3. Called before vacation and kept Craig up to date if something amiss. It looks like Walter is NOT perfect, but goes a long way in trying to make things right. Waiting this long for a cartridge is not the answer, however. Craig, one thing you do, ALIGN the cantilever so it's straight and damn the body. I have had to do this in the past and it's a good stop gap solution to keep from damage to vinyl. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 Mobile, I did that weeks ago thanks I also have a second table to use anyway. In fact I have a 3rd 4th and 5th LOL !!!!!!!!! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 I give up. fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 fini, what exactly do you give up on ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 ---------------- On 11/16/2002 2:55:57 PM Chris Robinson wrote: Damn, it's snowing -- Expecting NASTY weather in here tonight -- 1/2" of ice glaze on everything. http://www.weather.com/outlook/recreation/local/01523 Wonderful. Perfect driving weather if you've got that NOS440 in a Zamboni! ---------------- I just checked the weather for tomorrow and it's only gonna be a high of 65. My girlfriend and I are going to Epcot tomorrow with some friends in the Corvette Club, and I only have a pair of shorts and a t-shirt (my standard garb). It'll be a little nippy but it sounds like it's better than the weather everywhere else. BTW, my Donut Mat arrived today but I didn't get a chance to check it out. I'll give you my opinion on Monday... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 16, 2002 Author Share Posted November 16, 2002 Which table are you going to use the donut mat on? Second thought on the matter is that the FULL STandard mat might work better on some tables and perhaps might stay put easier. What I want to know, whether someone makes these are not, is has anyone HEARD a difference with the mat in the positive? I know Allan ordered one to try as well. Since these things offer a 30 day money back feature, it's not gamble. Still, besides C&S's obvious apathy concerning the Donut's aid, has anyone here heard anything positive in nature? There have been so many positive comments on this mat, I was surprised here. Of course, so far, I think all the users have acrylic platters. Will be interested in hearing some other opinions. Allan has the TD-124 and Mike the vintage Dual. I guess they will be the first of the others to see. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 In case any of you missed the game, the Crimson Tide just shut out LSU 31-0. My wife has about three miles of that waffly rubber shelf liner in the kitchen cabinets. I think I'll pick up that large serving platter and cut out 12" of the liner and try it out on my ringing metal platter direct drive turntable. That will give me something to do since it only took about 2 hours to set up and get much better than CD quality sound from the table. The liner is hunter green. Wonder if the color matters? Wish it came in Crimson. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Its not that I am apathetic, it is hard work to decipher the difference in the sound. It would help if 1) I knew what kind of sonic difference I was looking for and 2) I really could grasp the physics involved and believe it. I don't enjoy the process of trying to hear things (differences) that I am not sure exist. As you say, it takes time to develop the ear for this. The feedback problem with TT at first, now that was glaring and obvious and the fix dramatic. The difference between the felt and the donut, I am not sure I hear. The LP directly on the acrylic, possibly I heard a difference but not absolutely sure. Maybe it was crisper, but then again, I might be fooling myself. -C&S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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