MMF-7 Turntable recommendation - Underwoodwally

[Clipped and Shorn]

"Do you get woofer cone bouncing about in your CW?  Let me know on that one."

How do I check for this? I guess I will have to remove the front grill? Let me know the procedure for checking this.

Meanwhile, I will order that Isolation Box thingie, do you think the Rega Planet CD player would benefit from this as well.

btw, the tube gear is NOT on the library table, but on shelves built above the table, I think the tube gear is fine, it seems more isolated from the vibrations.

c7s

[mobile homeless]

Yes, remove the grill and see if when you walk or play the table at even low volume, you are getting pulsing and uncontrolled movemment of the woofer cone. You need to remove grill and look. Some rooms and system can be bad with this. In which case, you might need a subsonic filter which can be put in your linein or out (this removes very low level signals). I have some Nakamichi inline filters that I used to have to use in a past house.

As for the Planet, it would probably benefit, but might be doing ok. Put your hand on the table at high volume. Tell me what you feel. Is the whole table vibrating? Now put your hand on the right side of the Planet. How is it feeling? Try this at different volumes. See how it changes and when it gets REALLY bad.

kh

[jazman]

Just a few thoughts for those of you who may be purchasing NEW turntables in the future.

First let me clearly state that I get NO discounts nor have any affiliation with the Elusive Disc site or company other than as a customer, who with my hard to find and harder to save dollars, purchased my VPI Scout table, JMW 9 tonearm, Clearaudio cartridge, and VPI phono interconnect cables there. I get no promotional discounts or kickbacks. I DO know good service when it is rendered with a purchase. That's what this is all about.

That said, I feel the Elusive Disc is an excellent place to purchase a turntable. Why? The owner, Robert Bantz, does more than act as middle man between you and the fatory. He is very knowledgeable and helpful with the decision making process of analog products. No pressure to direct your purchase. He provides a level of service that goes along with your turntable purchase which is more like purchasing at a local shop. All turntables are opened and inspected prior to being shipped to the customer. If a cartridge is included with your purchase, it is installed, tonearm balanced/aligned if needed, table checked for proper operation. When you receive it, if you already had the cartridge installed, you can plug it in and simply play music. My Scout arrived fully prepared to assemble the few pieces that were necessary. The fact that the unit was inspected, assembled and played before shipping to me, allowed Bob to discover the tonearm connector to the junction box with not so perfect connector pins which created less than a smooth connection when it arrived from the factory. He was able to call VPI, have them ship a new part which did work as smooth as it should before I ever recieved it. He also called to let me know what he discovered and what the new shipping date would be. All the pain, or any frustration, was taken care of long before I received it. The Scout is not a setup problem when ordered from the Elusive Disc. The same can be said for the other tables he sells, including the MMF-7. What I am saying here is simple. Underwoodwally may have the lowest price, Elusive Disc price for MMF-7 I believe is $899,(at present no shipping cost to first time customers), BUT sometimes the lowest price really isn't the lowest price. Service before, during, and after the sale, if part of the equation, can equalize the price considerably. I for one do not have the time, nor inclination, to be a turntable expert, though I love playing vinyl to no end. I will learn more as I upgrade and grow with the Scout table, but I don't want a nightmare to start the romance, if you know what I mean.

I spent the time to post this because with the issues now with three purchases, all the time being spent to correct problems, having no table while a new one arrives, or a new cartridge arrives, a cracked cover is replaced,...who needs that to sour your vinyl experience. Dealing with Bob at the Elusive Disc should be a no brainer. He will ship your new table to you checked out and ready to play except for final assembly from the shipping box. And yes, I mentioned all of this about their level of service in my previous posts about the Scout, but most of you probably were not paying attention or caring. What do I get from all this? The simple satisfaction of knowing you will not be sorry for your investment to rediscover the richness of vinyl. Think about it!

Klipsch out.

[Clipped and Shorn]

I checked, the Cornwalls are fine. It was the feedback distortion that made them sound so bad, with a good clean signal they sound fine. Double checked with the McIntosh FM tuner, the Rega P CD player and the other turntables, all of which indicate that the Cornwalls are totally intact. I am having second thoughts about the MMF-7 generally, although I do have to address this feedback problem. When they sell a TT without any suspension system, what the heck to they expect a person to do. Why doesn't everyone else who tries to set these up go through this same problem?

I would like to hear a report from the others who purchased the Music Hall MMF-7. What did you guys do about isolated the table from external vibrations? And how do you like the sound generally. I am still up in the air about whether this table is going to do it for me. {At this point the Technics still sounds better}. I have ordered that Isolation Box. I am wondering if there may be something else malfunctioning with the MMF-7, afterall it arrived with the cover cracked and the stylus cover floating around in the box. I will be talking to Wally tomorrow.

ps. how does the Linn deal with anti-skate?

c7s

[jazman]

C&S,

I think you're being a bit of an alarmist at this point. Suspension, or lack of it, should not be the issue with feedback. My table has no suspension, and I have no feedback issues. Some questions are in order. Where do you have your turntable located with respect to the location of the Cornwalls? Does the feedback occur only at high volume settings, or at any volume setting? What do you mean when you say the Technics sounds better? Be aware that it will take at least 40 hrs of play before the cartridge begins to sound it's best. Is the table otherwise mechanically quiet?

Without a doubt, it should not have arrived with a cracked cover and floating stylus cover. Have you looked closely at the cartridge to make sure all connections are still intact? When frustrated, I know I have overlooked simple answers to troublesome hardware issues. Take a moment for a deep breath.

Klipsch out.

[NOSValves]

clipped,

I have my MMF-7 setup on a shelf about 3' above my right Lascala this shelf is attached to the concrete basement wall with Heavy steal brackets the shelf is just basic 3/4" MDF. I have 2 Turn Tables on it. My Music Hall and my JVC F-50 I get zero negitive feedback thru either turntable. I used small 1/8" thick felt pads under the dime size platforms for the cone legs but really had no feedback before I did this so I'm not sure why your having such problems. The Cartridge on these 7s seems real sensitive though.

Craig

[mobile homeless]

Let me start this post out by saying I do know how frustrating it is to set components up and get the most out of some of this gear. It takes patience, some ingenuity, research, trial and error, and an open mind to solutions with an attention to details. Sometimes the answers are not forthcoming.

Yet, this is part of the problem with recommending things to people and ironically enough what I was trying to avoid with ever recommending my Linn table, a table that can sound amazing but needs an experienced user to get the most out of compared to many of the modern tables.

I find the Consumer Reports Syndrome to come in to play with people and this is a frustrating result. There is NO doubt in my mind whatsoever that a correctly setup MMF-7 on a good stand with the cartridge mounted correctly will outplay a standard Technics SL-1200 Mk II. No question in my mind as I have had countless hours with those tables in every type of setting and setup. And the theories and design of the MMF-7 are more sound and will bring more from the grooves but MORE CARE must be taken with the setup and surrounding conditions.

I repeat TWO THINGS. First of all, these tables and cartridges TAKE A WHILE TO BREAK IN. Do some research on the Vinyl Asylum and across the net on this. Almost every comment pertaining to cartridges includes this not to mention the table, arm, bearing etc. While this does not account for the feedback issue, this DOES ACCOUNT for the lack of positives. Some gear is worse than others in this regard. I do know that I have read many comments pertaining to the LONG breakin period of the Eroica cartridge. The suspension HAS TO RELAX in THIS little unit. Ditto for all cartridges.

Second, this is a table WITHOUT MUCH SUSPENSION ala VPI Jr, Rega Planar, Clearaudio, Basis 1400, VPI Scout, Progressive Engineering The Table, etc etc. ALL OF THESE TABLES NEED TO BE ON GOOD STANDS AND SETUP PROPERLY with thought going into location, placement, and use. And if used in a troublesome location or without proper setup, problems and feedback will result. On the other hand, I think I wrote this in the VERY FIRST post, even with its own title. This is very important with these tables. But, when setup properly, you are rewarded with VERY GOOD sonics that surpass mnay suspension tables, this coming from someone that has one of teh most acclaimed suspension tables of all time (And the Linn LP-12 just won the Stereophile #1 spot for the most important audio gear in the last 62 years. Of course, I am not big Stereophile lover these days but it was an interesting list - the record list was even more problematic).

A table without a suspension gets rid of some problems associated with sprung tables but introduces others that MUST BE ADDRESSED in setup and placement. The results, as evidenced by others, is very good. The SL-1200 will get consistant sound like the SL-1200 depending on cartridge. IT can be played in a school gym on a lunch table, sitting on a milk crate, or resting on a lead shot filled stand. IT will only go so far, however, in the sonic scheme of things - it is a fine table but will not surpass the better tables setup correctly.

kh

ps- Most, though not all, good tables come without a tonearm, the customer picking his favorite or choice arm to apply to table (some come with an arm setup for the table for ease ala MMF). So the anti-skating issue is one you deal with the ARM not the table. Most believe the spring anti-skating solution to be ultimately flawed which is why some have opted for other approaches, each with other compromises. The VPI arm that Edmond has DOES AWAY with antiskating altogether besides the tweaking of the tonearm cable, this because Harry believes the mechanical antiskate devices degrade the sonics of the arm. There area many theories here.

pps- You put my Linn LP-12 on a MASSIVE STAND and the table sounds lifeless, DULL, and lacking of life. IF that is all I did, I would shout out "WOW, these Linn tables stink. BOO FOR LINN." But you must think of the application, design, use, etc. Same with a Lotus Eleven going down I-95 with joints in the road. Ditto with a poorly setup table, whether in application or within.

[fini]

They sould include a fully furnished, sonically correct house with these tables, eh?

Very briefly (i.e. generally speaking), what are the sonic disadvantages of the typical sprung table vs. it's non-suspended cousin?

Also, can you sum up the reasons why a light, but stiff(?) base is preferred over a heavy, massive one? Does it have to do with isolating the TT from the vibrations of the floor?

I know you've addressed this ad nauseum, but a hint of a refresher here might help the discussion.

fini

[mobile homeless]

Very quickly, I was referring to the LINN LP-12 regarding the light but stiff stand. Some tables do very well with ULTRA MASS MONSTER BUILD STATUS. The Lead Balloon turntable stand was a beast and did do well with many tables, but the Linn sounded like a horse drawn cart without the romantic plus while nested there. In addition. these sprung suspension tables must have tuned springs that are balanced and also fitted for that chassis and application. When I speak of not having the Linn setup properly, it is more than likely referring to the balancing of thes tension of these three springs.

A lot of this has to do with subsonic vibration that still brings results threw some massive stands. This is why AIR had been assumed in a lot of solutions as it bypasses these pitfalls.

As for the house with the sprung, wooden floors that cause havoc via footfalls, this is a common problem with various solutions. Many opt for wall mounted stands ala target or others. IF on the ground floor, many (including my father) opted for placing supports under the house with jacks and blocks under the beams/joists. A good, rigid stand combined with table setup can really aid. But remember, some tables, as noted, are far more subseptable to vibration. This does not make them bad tables per say, but CARE must be taken in this situation. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, if you have a TERRIBLE location and one where some of these solution cannot be addressed in some degree, you will have to opt for a table with a more intricate of dedicated suspension.

kh

[Clipped and Shorn]

One thing I have noticed with this new MMF-7 is that the cover, which is directly hinged to the plinth, acts like a big radar screen for vibrations. At one point I carefully closed the cover while an LP was playing and when the front of the cover came to rest on the plinth there was so much induced vibration that it sounded like a jet plane was flying over the house. I checked to see if the motor was in any way touching the feet, but the motor was clear. Pressing down on the table sometimes helped stop this momentarily, but not always. This has suggested to me that the MMF-7 is a crappy design and that Songer's observations may be haunting....although it is true that I have noticed the cover as amplifier of vibrations on almost all other tables I have encountered as well, just not this bad.

The MMF-7 sits on the surface as the rest of the unit so it seems to me that it is not completely isolated from the the sytem. The motor sits on a little stand and there are some little "rubbler (acrylic?)" feet which I assume are supposed to dampen any motor vibration between the motor and its stand.

Through all of this I am still able to more or less hear the sound of the MMF-7 at lower volume and make some kind of sweeping evaluation. Even given the lack of ideal situation at present in the set up and knowing that it could be greatly improved, I am not enough impressed with any dramatic difference between this and the Technics to indicate to me a first impression of the MMF-7 being in potential ballpark of really dramatic improvement. I was hoping for at least a first impression which would say "ok this MMF-7 with HO/MC cart is going to be a quantum leap up in detail, bass, or whatever. It is not promising enough at this point, and I am fantasizing that this dramatic difference may be found elsewhere.

The subtle differences to be accounted for by "break in" of cart, and finding the perfect shelf or stand etc. is not seeming like it could possibly be enough of a dramatic improvement given that the Technics had not been really at all disappointing in any way, it was only that I fantasized about some quantum leap improvement.

c7s

[mobile homeless]

Well, I could have told you to ditch the dust cover in normal listening situations as this is a much reported problem in most tables. And the fact that you are getting these horrible vibrations/feedback from your setup makes it DOUBLE important to lose the cover when doing critical listening. I ditch mine on the LINN LP-12 when listening most of the time.

On your other comments, I really strongly assert how important BREAK IN is with a turntable and cartrige. Ditto, once again, with setup. A new component can sound glassy, closed in, lacking air, restrained etc, all things that GREATLY IMPACT your perception. This differences are not subtle. I dont know what else to say here.

And the SETUP for that table is obviously not optimal.

Finally, and I dont wnat to offend, but the differences in the sound of gear takes practice. Some of these things are very subtle but VERY important once you become aware of the difference. It is almost comparable in result but not application to seeing an abstract art representation and not being aware of the higher depiction of truth vs the painting with a close copy of an original subject. This seems an insane and totally opposite comparision but use your imagination here. I am talking about the idea of this over the actual application. Yes, it's a strange comparison, but I think you night knbow what I mean (if thinking of it less in application where it seems almost counter to point but once aware of the truth in some abstract representations, the photo copy of the original is void in some aspects). Actually, I am really only talking about listening to the different cues in reproduction (in assessing the gear..not the music). The differences between the belt drive/separate motor with acrylic platter vs the direct drive/cast metal platter/ rubber mat table is going to be revealed if you set the beast up properly and wait for breakin.

On the other hand, you might just opt to send the rig back and put your money into another vinyl option; there are many out there. You might find the MMF-7 to be your liking. Although I have to say I have not read a BAD word about this table from reveiwers with better tables to compare. Then again, I have not heard the MMF-7 but believe in most of its solutions.

kh

[Clipped and Shorn]

1. moved the MMF-7 over to the spot where the Technics was, thinking maybe it was sitting in a particularly resonant vibrational pit at the end of the library table.

2. re-adjusted tracking weight which may have been incorrect and too light.

3. adjusted the plinth levellingmore precisely.

4. removed the f***ing cover which was like someone cupping the ears to hear more feedback. I will just use it to place over the TT as a dust cover when not in use.

YES, IT IS IMPROVING AND SHOWING THE PROMISE OF A MORE DRAMATIC IMPROVEMENT especially in midrange detail and soundstage. Cool. Cornwalls never sounded so good.

Unitil the Isolation box arrives. I am going out to get a 16"X20" scrap of granite from the local supplier, and four green handballs from Big 5, and four furniture cups from Home Depot.

There is hope.

-c7s

[Allan Songer]

LOTUS XI???

In a former life I used to race cars for fun. Formula Vee, Super-Vee, Formula Ford. I had a Lotus 51, A Lotus 61, a Brabham Formula 3 with a Cosworth twin-cam. I also had a Lotus 7 (variety of engines, including a Rotary from a Mazda RX-3!!), a Lotus 19 Formula Jr., a Lotus-Cortina (as much fun as ANY of the open-wheeled cars). BUT I NEVER HAD A LOTUS 11! I would die to run one of these hard at Willow Springs!! It might follow the rain-grooves on the freeway, but I'll bet it will take your breath away in a four-wheel-drift in turn 7. Yowza!

I guess a Linn LP12 is a lot like a Lotus, and I suppose my TD-124 is more like a Cunnigham LeMans Caddy. Both are great and fast and VERY cool, but couldn't be more different from one another. . .

Colin Chapman RULES!

[mobile homeless]

First of all, great news on the table front, C&S! I was getting ready to suggest some sort of stop-gap test like you are doing, except using the super fine MDF and some balls etc. Good idea. BTW, it is VERY important you get the downforce (best with a Shure gauge) and cart setup exactly right for best sound. USe the supplied protractor to make sure the lineup is correct. Glad to hear some progress; I personally think it will be much better by end of the week.

ALLAN! LORD! One of my other passions! I had no idea that you were into vintage sports cars of this type! Man, I wish you were on this coast! I love almost every car you mentioned and have been a passionate fan of the SCCA/Vintage Racing Series. I good friend in Chapel Hill owned a Lotus Super Seven and had a Lotus Eleven replica he was working on but I never got to see his Eleven on the road or track. It is one of my favorites!

You dont know how lucky you were to have had a chance to drive all these cars. I am looking for something fun to drive right now after selling my 72 BMW Bavaria. I cant believe you got to race all those great machines...

kh

[Allan Songer]

Vintage racing just lost it's attraction for me when the gazillionaires started showing up with 48 foot trailers and 6-man pits crews and there I was with a Craftsman tool box, a Chevy pickup and a couple of sleeping bags. The last time I was on the track was in '93. I left SCCA for vintage in the mid-1980's for the same reason--it was impossible to compete in Formula Ford on a workingman's salary.

Then in 1993 one of these rich guys almost ran me and my Lotus-Cortina off the road at Laguna Seca. He had a minty mint Alpha GTA Jr. (1300 cc) and had NO idea how to drive it-- he got pissed as I was going around him and amost got me killed. I ended up tracking him down after the race and attacking him. I beat the tar out of him--they had to pull me off of him and I was kicked out of "V.A.R.A." for one year and I never went back. I guess I'm lucky he didn't sue me! I sold the Cortina to a guy in Japan for 28K and the Lotus 19 to someone in San Francisco for 30K and that was that. No more race cars. I did keep my 1952 MGTD which I've owned since I was 15, but I don't race it--it's just a fun, old sports car that you can drive at 10/10ths and never break the speed limit!

I did some drag racing in the mid-1990's in a Studebaker Lark that ran high 12's, but I got bored with bracket racing after a couple of seasons. I guess I'm done with motorsports forever. Audio is cheaper anyway!

[Clipped and Shorn]

kh,

Just got a beautiful heavy slab of marble scrap (19" X 22") from a local shop for free! {what a country}, bought 4 new handballs at Big 5, and four furniture cups at Home Depot. Everything works great now and the sound is detailed and the soundstage noticeably improved. I levelled things precisely, moved the whole table over to a better spot, removed the cover entirely and readjusted the tracking weight. I am happy with the results and the whole thing looks cool with the marble slab, blue motor light and the blue handballs. Now I want to get the exact specs for the impedance for the Eroica cart. and customize the preamp input to this or at least check to see if it is already in the ballpark.

PS. The DIY method I used for a suspension platform may be of use to others, it works great, looks cool, and was about $20 mostly because of the new handballs. The marble slab is just about the size of a sink and the suppliers usually have cut out scraps they want to get rid of. The piece of beautiful thick marble I got was a perfect little rectangle.

c7s

[Clipped and Shorn]

Thorens TD 124 is truly an outmoded piece of crap. I have been through those things inside and out. Highly overrated by todays standards especially (I guess it had its day) and eventually unfixable since they do not make the motors anymore and the one guy who claimed to be able to rebuild them has closed his doors.

The very concept of the drive system is highly compromised, even tho one step better than the really really crappy old fashioned regular drive wheel system. Eventually those pulleys and things inside there are impossible to tweak correctly. Get lucky and unload it on Ebay while there are still some suckers out there who think it is something because of the heaviness of the platter and the die hard reputation. I have talked to high level audio engineers who totally agree.

c7s

[Clipped and Shorn]

Yet another informed audiophile speaks out about "Class C" components:

"LINN SONDEK LP-12 (USED ONLY)

The Linn Sondek LP-12 is now an obsolete 1970's design that has had a number of minor (in audibility, but not in cost!) improvements in the last 15 years.

It is, by far, the most overrated audio component of all time and it is also the most obvious example that, especially in the audio world, "marketing skills" are much more important to the commercial success of a component than its ultimate performance.

The Linn "simplifies*" the music and it is also noticeably colored compared to its competitors. The frequency extremes (especially the bass) are also substandard. This is the reason why Linn, and its dealers, usually stress focusing on the most basic and simple audio goal ("follow the tune") when it's auditioned.

The Linn actually does "excel" in this one area. How?

This is because "the tune" will always be relatively easier to hear, in comparison to other turntables, when the natural musical complexities have been compromised (by being subtracted). This ploy epitomizes the most cynical and misleading marketing strategies; those which turn actual weaknesses into "strengths".

*For those skeptical readers who require further confirmation of this "characteristic", from an actual, well-known "Linn Lover" no less, you are in for a treat. There is even the added bonus of an excellent example of the use of The (Secret) Audio Reviewer's Rule No. 3D (see Audio Press file for complete "Rules").

This is what Art Dudley wrote about the Linn versus the VPI Aries/JMW 10 combo in Listener Volume 6 No. 2:

"The Aries' timbral balance is different from that of the LP12/Aro combination - the latter sounding a little more "open," the VPI making chords sound a bit richer, thicker, and more tonally complex. Which is right? Beats me."

Mr. Dudley was not able to just come out and write that his beloved Linn sounds "simple" by comparison. Instead, he writes that the VPI sounds "more...complex". Even worse, he then avoids stating a preference, which should be a "no-brainer" in this particular instance. I'm a little more direct than he is. When it comes to music (though not "audio"):

Complex is "right", Simple is "NOT right". Period.

Even the Linn's "pleasant" character, which is just an innocuous distortion and coloration, has been misrepresented by them (and their fans) to be a "'musical' strength".

The Linn also has a practical downside...

The Linn (along with some other spring-loaded turntables) has a tendency to "bounce" if it is not placed on the proper shelf or stand. This problem must obviously be corrected before an expensive cartridge is mounted on it.

My Conditional Recommendation

However, despite these sonic problems, the Linn LP-12 is still recommended, though only under certain, strict conditions:

If a reader can find a USED Linn:

1. Manufactured "recently" (after "Valhalla" and "Nirvana"),

2. For a decent price (at least 50% off retail),

3. In very good condition,

4. And which is set-up properly, or can be done so (in your house) for a reasonable price, then "go for it".

The financial investment and risk are reasonably low at that point, and the reader will have a turntable quite a bit better than (the budget) Rega's, Ariston's or most Thorens etc. Linn's service reputation is also excellent.

Don't go too far...

Whatever you do, avoid the Lingo (which may create RFI problems) and any other expensive accessory (unless it is "thrown-in"). For that much money, a new VPI, Orbe (etc.) is a better turntable and investment.

Don't forget that the Linn is manufactured in Scotland, and costs much more in North America than in the UK (where it is still a good value).

You may "live happily ever after" with the used Linn, but if not, it should be very easy to resell it and recoup most, or even all, of your money, but never fool yourself into thinking that you own "one of the world's finest turntables", you don't.

A Cheap and Effective Linn Upgrade?

A reader has recently informed me of an upgrade that he claims dramatically improves the performance of the Linn. It is the Cetech subchassis. This is his description of it:

"I've just upgraded (the LP-12) with a Cetech subchassis. Hell, the Linn one does ring like a bell when you tap it. The Cetech one is (a) carbon fibre/aluminium honeycomb composite; light, rigid, virtually non resonant. Why it works is like this: It allows the armboard to be bolted up to the chassis ... instead of being nipped up with tiny screws. The latter loses the ringing of the chassis by being 'lossy'.

The Cetech chassis makes a MASSIVE difference. Well, like changing to a better class of tt. Much more low level detail is there; extra musical phrases and instruments for a start! Yes, as big as that. Mainly, it's a total cleaning up of the sound. And much better 'tonality', individual natural tone of each instrument.

The LP12 is seriously compromised in terms of the behaviour of its subchassis and the linking of this chassis to the armboard. This causes the loss of considerable low level information, and a corresponding high sound floor. The single most effective way to lower the sound floor of the LP12 is to fit the Cetech subchassis. As this costs about £100, it is also by far the most cost effective upgrade. And this is a Linnie saying these things."

A Contrarian Advantage

To end the "Linn bashing" on a pragmatic note: Serious audiophiles can use all the Linn-hype to their advantage when reading and assessing the opinions of 'audio reviewers' and all other self-proclaimed 'experts'. The rule is simple:

The more a 'reviewer' (or any fellow audiophile) is impressed with the Linn LP-12 in comparison to any of the finest turntables recommended above, the less credibility (with turntables) he or she deserves.

Further Personal LP-12 Experiences and Notes

Since my (actually our) opinion on this turntable has proved to be the most controversial of any of the components on this entire list, a further personal explanation may help to clear the air.

My Many Linn Experiences

I owned my first Linn Sondek LP-12 back in around 1976. I purchased another one in 1979 after I realized I had made a serious mistake selling the first one (for a number of expensive direct-drives and then an Ariston). I greatly enjoyed listening to them at the time.

Since then, I (or my store) have owned around 20 more of them. My most recent experience was around two years ago (1999). I have heard almost every version, and in-depth.

The Numerous (and TRUE) Comparisons

I have made more comparisons with the Linn versus other turntable designs than I care to remember, including many at my customers' homes. I routinely used the same models of tonearm and cartridge on both turntables, which is the only method that is fair and accurate.

On a number of occasions, I even went to the further trouble of having both the exact same tonearm and cartridge removed from one turntable and placed on the other, just to isolate the exact differences between the turntables themselves.

I had the finest "set-up" men I knew do the actual work, to make sure there could be no "excuses" or "uncertainty" as to the final results. I even used special stands, that were supposed to enhance and optimize the sound of the Linn.

The results of those numerous comparisons are discussed above. The other auditioners were virtually unanimous in their agreement with my characterizations of those results. That is why I (actually my store) ended up with around 20 Linns; essentially all of them were "trade-ins".

(For years, I actually kept a Linn LP-12 in my store to help sell the VPI HW-19; making A/B comparisons on a regular basis. Those comparisons enabled me to become one of the best selling VPI dealers in the world during the 1980's. Tricks of the trade.)

These (consistent) results were not unique in any manner. Virtually every other knowledgeable person I knew in the audio business realized that the Linn's basic design was obsolete after the Goldmund and Oracle designs came out.

At that time, 20 years ago now, we all expected Linn to radically change their design, but Linn decided instead to play the "follow the tune" marketing game. The fact that this ploy was actually successful is a depressing thought.

The Linn Sondek Owners ("Linnies")

The other common experience I had back then, and which is still very true today, is that most owners of the Linn turntable will rarely, if ever, seriously compare their Linn to the competition. There is a reason for this reluctance...

It is the same reason why religious fanatics will never seriously study "comparative religions", or any "true believer" will always avoid the "alternatives"...

The stronger, more untenable and increasingly irrational their belief, the less likely that person will ever consider arguments or even information that would contradict that belief.

It is just too emotionally painful and unsettling for that person to contemplate (let alone realize) that their now comfortable and satisfying opinion may not be true.

Conclusion

I realize there has been a near "cult" (and an enormous emotional) attachment to this turntable for years (it started back in the 1970's). I don't care about that. To me, the Linn Sondek is just another tool for reproducing music, just like every other turntable (amp, speaker etc). It is nothing else. Nor can it be.

I see the Linn for what it is, not for what I want it to be."

[mobile homeless]

You actually posted that entire mess from ole Arthur? Yeah, Arthur Salvatore's "Recommended Components" list is a real beauty. Another one of those half right, half wrong, but damn certain of it all pages. Arthur does have some interesting comments regarding equipment but his bias against Linn is well-known. I agree with about 30% of his views. He is a bit over the top concerning the tube amplification as well but I agree some there too. A bit much to put that whole rant in here dont you think?

kh

[fini]

Cool you got that slab for free!

fini