r1glasstech Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Hello everyone, I'm new here. I joined and am posting because I desperately need help. A while back I purchased some Klipsch Reference Premier Speakers off ebay in refurbished conditions at a discounted price. I knew I would need to upgrade all my other components to get the most out of these speakers. Well I ended up at a local big box store one day and was just browsing. Even with my lack of knowledge on the subject I was instantly aware that my speakers were not going to live up to their potential off a $300-$500 receiver. So I got talking to a salesman who told me about a program they offer where a professional makes a house call and will help you finish out the system, free of charge. Sounded good so I signed up. A week later their "professional" showed up at my house and we began discussing the system. He seemed knowledgeable so I went ahead and went with some of his recommendations to start out. Just a receiver and speaker wires to start. So at this point let me take a quick interlude to give you a run down of what I have as well as what the "professional" recommended. Off Ebay I purchased: A pair of KLipsch RP-800F floorstanding speakers One Klipsch SPL-120 12" subwoofer One Klipsch RP-504C center channel And this is what the "professional" recommended to me: Audioquest Chocolate 10' HDMI cable 3x Audioquest Rocket 33 8' speaker cable Audioquest 6.6' power cable Panamax 9 outlet surge protector Marantz SR6014 Now I would like to mention a few details. When we discussed the receiver I made sure to tell him the speakers were 150W at 8 ohms. (turns out this Marantz receiver is 110W at 8 ohms). Second I just want to say before anyone decides to troll me about the Audioquest components just know i'm well aware these are much maligned products to some and i decided to roll the dice on the speaker wires and I am satisfied with the money I spent on them. So obviously my biggest issue right now is the Marantz SR6014. It seems to drive the RP-504C center channel all right but even maxed out the floor speakers don't seem to do much of anything, it's almost like they aren't even there. Needless to say i'm not thrilled about my current situation. I decided to come here in hopes that I can get the help I've needed all along. I do like the warm yet still rich tone I seem to get from the Marantz so I would not mind sticking with Marantz, unless of course there is something else that you think is better. I'm open for any and all suggestions to get the full potential out of this setup. Ive tried to read a bunch of different forums on the relative subject before I came here but I just didn't feel like it was getting me any of the information I needed. That being said Im sorry for being such a newb to all this so I absolutely appreciate everyones patience in dealing with my ignorance on the subject. This is something that is very important to me and I don't want to make another expensive mistake. Thanks in advance to anyone that takes the time to help me. I'm excited to be here and I'm looking forward to hearing your suggestions and learning as much as I can along the way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 Did you run the speaker setup using the supplied microphone for the Marantz? If not, you'll need to in order to balance all your speakers in your room. Or, you can always adjust them by ear. If you have run the setup, what levels did the Marantz set everything to? If you're watching movies or TV, the center speaker will handle 80-90% of the dialogue so it would make sense in that situation that the front main speakers aren't outputting much sound. What about two channel music? How does everything sound then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1glasstech Posted December 22, 2019 Author Share Posted December 22, 2019 Thanks for chiming in! I have adjusted every setting the Marantz has. And yes, i adjusted them by ear. I even looked up ideas on forums for different settings to no avail. When watching movies or playing video games the sound is more than adequate. Its when I put on my favorite music and go to turn it up that its lacking. The center channel has good well rounded sound and the receiver moves the 5" drivers efficiently but the floor speakers dual 8" drivers will barely move or output sound at all, even with the gain maxed out. The amp will cause the sound to distort well before the 800's get anywhere near their effective operating range. I am convinced it is simply that this amp cannot power these speakers. How could a 110w at 8ohms amp possibly power speakers that require 150w at 8ohms? From where I stand it seems quite obvious why they didn't put "110w" on these speakers. I think I even read somewhere that people were using double wattage receivers on some setups? As in 300w amp for 150w speakers. So unless there is something huge I have managed to miss through this whole process it seems like I simply have the wrong amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TasDom Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 Are the flat metal jumpers in place between the terminals? Are you connecting to one black and one red input on the speaker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1glasstech Posted December 22, 2019 Author Share Posted December 22, 2019 yes and yes...the speakers are hooked up correctly and working, just severely under powered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 13 hours ago, r1glasstech said: Thanks for chiming in! I have adjusted every setting the Marantz has. And yes, i adjusted them by ear. I even looked up ideas on forums for different settings to no avail. When watching movies or playing video games the sound is more than adequate. Its when I put on my favorite music and go to turn it up that its lacking. The center channel has good well rounded sound and the receiver moves the 5" drivers efficiently but the floor speakers dual 8" drivers will barely move or output sound at all, even with the gain maxed out. The amp will cause the sound to distort well before the 800's get anywhere near their effective operating range. I am convinced it is simply that this amp cannot power these speakers. How could a 110w at 8ohms amp possibly power speakers that require 150w at 8ohms? From where I stand it seems quite obvious why they didn't put "110w" on these speakers. I think I even read somewhere that people were using double wattage receivers on some setups? As in 300w amp for 150w speakers. So unless there is something huge I have managed to miss through this whole process it seems like I simply have the wrong amp. The 150 watt at 8 ohm is the maximum average wattage that your speakers can handle, not what they require. Your RP-8000s will output 98dB driven with 1 watt. I've paired Klipsch speakers of similar sensitivity ratings with an amplifier that was powered by several AA batteries and it was able to drive them loud enough to not want anything more powerful. I'm wondering why you're using your center speaker when listening to music, unless you're listening to live music encoded in surround sound? What sound field mode are you listening to music in? What source are you using? For music I'd suggest going with whatever two channel mode that your receiver (which is anything but underpowered) has available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1glasstech Posted December 22, 2019 Author Share Posted December 22, 2019 Not only have I run it in 2 channel mode, Iv'e also disconnected the center speaker completely. No change at all. And if this amp has plenty of power then why do I have to turn it up past 90% to listen to music? Sources for music have been through PS4 youtube and DVD's, running an Audioquest Mocha HDMI cable, as well as youtube off a laptop. I don't even barely hear the sound at all until the receiver is past 50%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 How are you calculating that the receiver is at 50/90%? If your speakers are calibrated then 0.0dB is Reference level. Do you have your volume set to relative or absolute? This article explains the difference: https://www.soundandvision.com/content/‘relative’-vs-‘absolute’-volume-what’s-difference With relative volume if the quietest level is -100dB and the loudest is 0dB, -50dB is not 50% power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1glasstech Posted December 23, 2019 Author Share Posted December 23, 2019 Nothing remotely scientific. Just saying that the max setting on the receivers volume is 96...there's not much useful sound below 50, and i usually jam out in the 80's. I'm getting sound out of all the speakers, it just seems like the center channel is the only one creating well rounded sound and I would expect. If I disconnect the center channel the sound quality seems to suffer. If you guys say this is amp is plenty for this setup I believe you, but something just seems off here. Why would the center channel sound so much richer and whole than the floorspeakers which just sound flatter and more bland? Would a more powerful amp possibly have better luck powering the 8" drivers of the 8000's? And would it allow me to get closer to 100% performance out of these speakers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Are you simply disconnecting the center speaker wires or are you turning the center off in the Marantz's menu? If you're only disconnecting the speaker physically the Marantz is still going to think you have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1glasstech Posted December 23, 2019 Author Share Posted December 23, 2019 I went into the Marantz and turned off the center channel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TasDom Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Did you run the Audyssey room correction software? If so, were you getting sound thru the front speakers during set up? What are the trim levels it set up and the crossover points? Also, a picture of your connections may be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1glasstech Posted December 23, 2019 Author Share Posted December 23, 2019 So I never ran the Audyssey setup, I've adjusted the parameters manually. I can definitely do that and see if it makes a difference though. And when you say "pictures of your connections" are you just asking about at the speakers? Or everything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TasDom Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, r1glasstech said: And when you say "pictures of your connections" are you just asking about at the speakers? Or everything? Just the back of the receiver if it's accessible. When you do run Audyssey, you'll hear noise ( chirps, or the like) from each speaker as the set up processes. Be sure to run all mic positions as instructed. This will set levels (trims) for each speaker which you can view once done and fine tune from there. If you get any error messages during set up, report back and we'll go from there. This is a great resource for frequently asked Audyssey questions. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/2376770-official-audyssey-thread-part-ii.html#post52664721 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TasDom Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 As an aside, this link would be useful to ask specific Marantz questions about your receiver. These guys live and breathe all things Marantz. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/3074034-official-2019-marantz-nr-series-sr-series-avr-owner-s-thread-faq-posts-1-6-a.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBlan1224 Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 Assuming audyssey helped? These speakers can run at close to full range on about 12 watts. This is because of how efficient these speakers are. The numbers they like to post are all distractions. How many watts a speaker needs to be powered is based on the efficiency rating and distance of MLP, not wattage. Edit: I just realized I'm responding to an old post. My fault. I'm sure you've done your research, trial and error and by now have a killer setup. Happy new year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt P Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 As pointed out, should not be a question of power. Since you bought these refurb off ebay is it possible maybe one or both of the woofers have blown? Stereo output for just two channels with even a garbage receiver should be pretty loud due to how sensitive the RP line is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis Rod Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 similarly to the initial comment, I have the following setup and was wondering if the Marantz 6014 will be good enough or if I need an amp... im definitely a newbie but trying to learn as much as possible as I complete this project.. 2 RP-8000F 1 RP-504C surround - 4 - RP-402S Currently I don't have the surround ones connected since I just bought them and im waiting to receive them..... it sounds perfect right now, but I will connect the 4 surround ones soon. So, do I need an upgrade in the AVR with an AMP or will the marantz do the trick? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptorman Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 5 hours ago, Alexis Rod said: similarly to the initial comment, I have the following setup and was wondering if the Marantz 6014 will be good enough or if I need an amp... im definitely a newbie but trying to learn as much as possible as I complete this project.. 2 RP-8000F 1 RP-504C surround - 4 - RP-402S Currently I don't have the surround ones connected since I just bought them and im waiting to receive them..... it sounds perfect right now, but I will connect the 4 surround ones soon. So, do I need an upgrade in the AVR with an AMP or will the marantz do the trick? Welcome....your Marantz will be plenty to power that system, even in a larger room. That is a very nice system you have. I think the OP had his AVR in surround sound mode while listening to music. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 Welcome to the forum! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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