leok Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 My order went in to Welborne today. I think I finally got the math straight. With my pp amp, using the 4 Ohm tap I get the following power max: 2.0Vp-p in > 2.60W 1.5Vp-p in > 1.48W 1.0Vp-p in > 0.66W 1) this is louder than I need. 2) the Moondogs produce 3.25W with 1.5Vp-p in., which is even louder. Thanks to deang and homeless for sharing information that I found necessary in making the decision. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Leo, congrats on the purchase. I was just on the site wondering if now's the time to considering picking up a pair myself. I love the Eico and it's retro look, but I also know that SET will be the ultimate destination for my two channel system. I'm always a little suspect of home-wired products, esp. if it's my "last" system. Do I recall correctly you're in Massachusetts? If so, would you mind if I came by sometime at your convenience to give them a listen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Congratulations Leo, I am sure you are going to love the 'dogs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Since I'm mathematically declined, maybe you can help me understand what you are saying exactly with those numbers. Your P-P is 10 wpc., and evidently there is a relationship between the output of the preamp and the input impedance of the amplifier that is determining the outcome of the numbers -- is this right? So, how do I figure out the output level of my setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Hope you like them, Leok! Congratulations on the order. Did you get any different parts? Shoot for the Jensen oils? Chris, I am thinking about what is best as well. It's a tough call. I am looking it over once again now. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted November 17, 2002 Author Share Posted November 17, 2002 Chris, That's fine. I live in Waltham, near the 128/Rt-30 intersection. Send an email note and when I get these amps running I'll let you know. deang, What the math says is that the Moondogs, using their 4 Ohm out, have more gain than my current pp amp. Also, the math says I don't require more than 3.25W. As far as can tell, when I'm listening to material as loud as I will tolerate, I'm probably using under 2.6W as seen by a 4 Ohm load on that 4 Ohm output. The math isn't too hard but it's real easy to get lost. I think you can view your setup as a 9W implementation of an 18W amp, using the 4 Ohm tap into a 102dB 8 Ohm speaker. Or you can see it as an 18 watt amp into a 99dB 4 Ohm speaker. I have started to think of the RF-7 as a 99dB 4 Ohm speaker. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted November 17, 2002 Author Share Posted November 17, 2002 edster00, Thanks. I'm looking foreward to hear in what you people are talking about. kh, I went for the Ultimate Parts upgrade. I did mention that I'd like to go with a Jupiter cap or two if that makes for a more natural sound. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Leo, Have you ever done any tests to determine the true in-room sensitivity of the 7's? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted November 17, 2002 Author Share Posted November 17, 2002 Dean, No, but connected to the same tap, the 99dB Fortes are not as loud. I suspect that the Fortes on the 8 Ohm tap would be about as loud as the RF-7s on the 4 Ohm tap. But that's relative .. no actual measurement. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Leok, Then you can issue a statement contrasting the Tripath and the Moondogs? Look forward to that. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 leok, It must have been the influence of the upcoming full moon, right? Whatever it was, Congratulations on ordering your Moondogs! Here's the shot(attached) of the bottom of mine as a refresher to how the underside looks to get you fired up with your project. Congratulations again! Klipsch out. PS. Sorry about the file size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted November 17, 2002 Author Share Posted November 17, 2002 jazman, Very nice. I will try very hard to behave myself, take my time, and try to do as nice a job as you have. Rick, I will review all three. The Tripath, as nice as it is, is already struggling with the pp amp. Still, the Tripath had the edge until I installed the diff-amp phase splitters and smaller output transformers. I think it will out perform many tube amps. It's a great reference. Also, for a quick listen, when I would prefer not to cycle the tubes on then off, it's perfect. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Hey Jazman, I see you have the Belle's. I have recently aquired a pair with type AB crossovers. What crossovers do yours have? And what would you think would be optimal? Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 You did do an excellent job with that wiring, Jazman! You could almost eat of that! Heh... Leok, write Les Lammers since he is the only one I know that has actually compared the Jupiter caps with something like the Jensen Copper Foil Oils. I think he is in the directory. IF not, write me and I'll give you his mail. I think it might be worth talking about them before the order. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 leok, Let me first state that I did not assemble my Moondogs. I bought them in that wonderful state from the first owner and builder. He did a remarkable job. The original photo of the Moondogs belly was posted by Kelly, in his usual superlative postings, which I extracted and reframed and may one day use as an avatar. When ever I want to feel unworthy, I look at that wiring job, which I think I could duplicate in about ten times the amount of time the first owner needed. I used to wire marine electrical equipment and truly appreciate great wiring work. cut-throat, I have the type AA networks(non oil caps). I have disabled the high freq. diode as others have done. I am planning to try a pair of AAs with oil caps soon. What year are your Belles, and do your AB's have oil caps? Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 cut-throat, Your AB crossovers are the same as the AL in the La Scala, and the AK in the Klipschorn. I believe these crossovers were used in the late 80's and possibly early 90's. They are also considered the worst crossover ever used in these speakers (imho). I replaced my AL's with the ALK's and it made a huge difference in the detail, clarity, openness and balance of the music. The ALK's have many tap settings which alter the attenuation of the squawker horn and are also bi-wireable. Others have mentioned they like the simple A network (lookupo some of Guy Landau's posts on the Older Speakers board) or the AA network. I would get comfortable with the networks you have and then look into something else. A number of members have built the A and ALK networks (The ALK scematic is on Al's website), so if you are handy with a soldering iron, you might want to go that route... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 Hi Jazman, My Belles are 1987 vintage. I have no idea what kind of caps are in the crossover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 cut-throat, See my post directly above yours... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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