justin_tx_16 Posted December 5, 2002 Share Posted December 5, 2002 So as to not have posts in two places, and because these two forums don't always meet in the middle so to speak, here is a link. Click to the Review Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted December 8, 2002 Author Share Posted December 8, 2002 Mobilehomeless. Did you get a read? I would like to read your opinions. Also, what is a great tube tuner and tube amp for budget? Still looking at a Scott 222 series? I am thinking of having a system at home and one at college, so I can go home to sweetness as I leave it while on college break. If I can bare to leave the horns alone over a christmas break! Anyways, thanks for posting in the thread over there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 How far away is college? Could you just run some speaker wire, and use the "B" speakers at college? When you want to listen to a different cd, call Mom to change it. Unless college is as far away as Dallas. fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 Justin, If you are looking for feedback on what you purchased (a low dollar vintage H/K tube amp for you Heresys) then I would jump right to the point and ask a question. Your post read like a mystery novel with the actual amp you purchased being the "who done it" at the end. I kept reading about why Colonel Muster didn't do it in the conservatory or Mrs White in living room but all I was really interested in was who done it, and I amost gave up as I skimmed through all the false guesses. I think it was a fine statement on your selection process and audio background, but if you were looking for maximum readership and feedback then I would generate a post in shorter and more direct language...or at least put the key info at the beginning leaving the rest as optional. Have you compared the tube amp to a SS receiver? What do you hear (using the Heresys as a constent)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted December 8, 2002 Author Share Posted December 8, 2002 I put in there in the very first part about the new amp the name... "I took his advice, for once, and put a bid in for a Harman Kardon HK430. He told me that he normally gets them for $30-40. That is cheap! <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Well, needless to say I was not that patient. I just did the Buy It Now after consulting with the seller. I help him setup his home theater and he will pay shipping. Well, shipping turned out to be $51.50! So, instead of paying $70 over what most pay, I only paid $10 more." and again at the bottom... "Thanks again. And if anyone is looking for a GREAT amplifier or receiver, check out the HK 430. For $30-40 how can you lose? Just sell it again! Maybe for more." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 Actually...what Justin purchased ISN'T a TUBE AMP, but is instead one of the better(if not the best)of the lower-powered SOLID-STATE RECEIVERS of its day(including any day before or since that time, IMHO!). There is no doubt that he could have gone with a number of separates of the tube-powered variety for his college dorm room system, but the total cost would have far exceeded what he paid for this unit. And they would have taken up much more dorm room space. I am very sure that he intends to build-up a tube stereo set-up for himself, but I doubt he will be hauling it off to a college dorm room. Most of all, I am happy that he is so pleased with what he purchased, since I was at least partly responsible in suggesting it to him. I don't consider myself an audio "expert"...by ANY means...but the little unit he aquired is one of the very best mates to Heresys that I have ever heard! This little H/K 430 receiver does NOT have the best S/S tuner ever made, but its tuner still beats the heck out of the majority of them that I have heard over the years. It also does NOT have the best S/S pre-amplifier section ever made, but it DOES have a damned good one...and its lack of an overabundance of unnecessary bells and whistles is one of the reasons! It also doesn't have the best S/S phono section there ever was, and it is limited to MM pickups...but its phono section is also nothing to make fun of, either!...besides, since the AUX input will be the most used, and it is the cleanest one on it, the other input pathways don't much matter! Where it REALLY stands out, though, is in its amplifier section! Due in part to its low power, and in other part to its TWIN-POWERED design...it just blows away almost ANY S/S unit out there in SOUND performance through HERESYS!...especially in a small-room listening environment! It has VERY clear reproduction, is EXTREMELY low-noise, produces high volumes that far belie its given power-rating, and has a punch in the bass department that is unmatched in any other S/S unit in its class over the years! It also has a very "warm" sound, and a "musical" quality not often found in any S/S equipment! And when you add up all of its "very good", "great", and "simply-outstanding" points, combine them with a sprinkling of being virtually bulletproof and designed and built to last a lifetime...and top it all off with its regularly going for less than its cost of shipping on eBay...it is ONE HELLUVA DEAL, IMHO! And when you are planning to soon live in an environment where beers get spilled, things get broken, and thefts occur, the tougher something is, and the less something's replacement cost is, the better-off you are!! An added feature is that when a thief knows it won't bring much more than the price of a pack of cigarettes at the local pawn shop, he will grab up something else instead...something he can get much more money for, something smaller in size, and something that doesn't weigh 25 lbs!! LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 SSSSSSHHHHHH! You're driving the price up again!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 AndyKub....one was listed TODAY on eBay for a "buy it now" of 55 bucks...and was grabbed-up in less than five hours!! LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 Is is starting to look like that most vintage stuff has it all over the new stuff. Better build quality, discrete components (instead of ICs), etc. We forget the trend to cut corners and keep down manufacturing costs. Now we now have 7 channel receivers that don't weigh any more than a toaster. It's funny, you pick up an old HK for $100 -- that if you built one that way now -- would probably cost you out the wazoo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 Dean, I have to agree with you there!! That H/K430 listed for around 320 bucks in 1976...which wasn't exactly cheap then! In today's dollars, that is around $1000, at the very least! In terms of build quality, audio quality, and other things, there is very little that can touch it today in the new market...at three times that!! Sure, it is only two-channel...and is rated at only 25wpc...but just look around at what we have today!! Justin compared it to two popular brand-new amps that each cost over a grand...and it had better sound quality than either of them...and when you take in the cost of a preamp and tuner added to their over-a-grand price...you still don't have its equal!! I just wonder what the hell has happened to the stuff over the years!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 I'll tell you what happend: "Video Killed the Radio Star". How do you cram 5 amps in a box and sell it for a price the average person is willing to spend? To do multichannel MY WAY -- I would have to mortgage the house and sell off my firstborn. So, you got this general problem, and it goes like this: "Hey Dean, I want to do HT -- what should I buy?" "How much you going to spend?" "About a grand." "So, you want 5 speakers, a sub, a DVD player, a receiver with 5 amps, and a built in processor -- for a $1000?" "Yeah, I can do that right?" "Sure, but take that same $1000 and put it into 2 speakers, DVD player, and a 2 channel integrated amp -- and it will crush your multichannel setup in every category." "No way dude!" "Yeah, it will." "Man, I gotta have 5 speakers and a sub!" "Well, go to Circuit City and buy KLH." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 I guess my speed reading isn't doing too well....no wonder I was confused... yes, sounds like a great audio system for the price and the points about damage, theft, and beer are right on the mark. In our college house we had a pair of Cornwalls and a Carver C500 amp. We used the system for parties in the basement (16 kegs consumed in a night so you can estimate the number of people that were flowing through the house). We also used the system for our live band's PA. It's certainly not the best environment for your treasures nor a time to think about possessions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 Hell, Dean...the quality was already on the downhill slide by the end of the 70's!!...long before multi-channel and H/T!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 I have to disagree with the above a bit in that I think that modern solid state amps from the better brands sound a lot better than most of the 70s options, especially during the spec wars where negative feedback was applied heavily to lower the distortion figures while killing the sonics. Some of those little receivers did sound very nice - Hell, I loved the little smallest Pioneer SX series way back when too. But units from early B&K, Creek, Musical Fidelity, Monarchy Audio, LFD Mistral, Audio Refinement, Audionics and others can sound very nice and amazingly open and transparent at under $1000 (or near there). Still, NONE of the above equals a quality tube amp. I could live with more than a few of the above listing with certain speakers and setups, but tube ultimately rule in almost every way when paired with sensitive speakers, especially horns of any kind. And the thing is, you dont need to spend a forture either or necessarily go down the vintage path if they scares you. Frankly, I would have loved to have a tube amp in college for a variety of reasons, with sound coming in #1. It would be more than cool in a dorm room staring at it when the lights were low or listening to some good stuff at low volume late at night. Andy and I did talk at length about finding a cheap 430 for my wife's class in music and culture but it never came to fruition. Might still go for it for the next semester go-around. kh ps- Justin, glad you did find something to light your fire. I would stay away from most of the average modern receivers you find from the likes of Yamaha, HK, Onyko, Pioneer, Sony etc. They really are poorly made with mediocre parts. In that way, YES.... they mid-fi makes did better years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 Kelly, I hope you DO get one for your wife...and I also hope you give it an unbiased good hard listen...it will definitely SURPRISE you. My own first year of college, before entering the Army, was punctuated by a dorm buddy who was a burgeoning "true audiophile" as he liked to put it. He had a Dynaco ST-70 he had built from a kit while in high school...along with a Dynaco FM-3 his father had built when he was probably in diapers...his turntable was a high school aquisition at the end of his senior year...a Garrard Zero-100 tangential-tracking tone-arm model. It was his pride and joy!! He went round and round with that thing, poor guy!! It was always on the fritz, but he swore the tracking concept was valid and eventually Garrard would get the bugs worked out on it and it would become touted as the finest turntable in the world!! From my memory, that NEVER happened!!...NOT EVEN CLOSE!!! Funny thing is...he had a perfectly good Dual sitting next to it that never got used!! Sometimes I can picture him in my mind...at our current aged state of decay, still sitting there with that Garrard, cussing at it while futilly attempting to squeeze a few minutes of cooperation out of it, and not having any music coming out of his AR speakers, while that same Dual, covered in a thick layer of dust and cobwebs, sits there idle beside it!! LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 Kelly, those amps that you listed...are not really designed for the masses. Yes, any of those amps will probably sound better than the great majority of solid state receivers of the middle 70's and forward. I was really thinking about the two channel receivers that had huge transformers, and were chock full of discrete components. At whatever point in time IC's were incorporated into these things -- is pretty much when the downhill trend began. The spec frenzy can be tied to this same time period -- probably 1975 -1977. My point about HT, had to do with taking a given set of dollars, and making it stretch to cover more than twice the amount of speakers, twice the amount of amps, and a sub. "Average" consumers are not going to spend $10,000, or even $5000 on a HT system. To get all of this "stuff" at a price they can afford -- there has to be some serious compromises in quality. Take any given amount of money, and put it into 2 channel instead of multichannel -- and the increase in quality of sound is considerable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 I think if modern SS gear sounded sub par on a particular pair of speakers, perhaps that person should question his speakers rather than the whole of modern SS equipment. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 Well, Keith... You can read what Justin just compared to his "new" old toy on his Heresys...and I have heard the same kind of results on MY Heresys...and from the looks of things, we have another BB member who will very soon be able to give a comparison of the same model S/S unit on whatever speakers he has...and quite possibly yet a fourth member, as things currently stand...LOL! I will be the very first to admit that nowhere NEAR all the early to mid-70's S/S stuff was great...and also to admit that there are some really nice S/S items around today...and even moreso readily admit that H/K, in those years back then made some stuff that wasn't worth half of what was being asked for it at the time...but this particular "X30" series by them is one of their best creations of all time!! Not only was it one of THEIR best...it was one of the BEST PERIOD! And I will stand by that statement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 "My point about HT, had to do with taking a given set of dollars, and making it stretch to cover more than twice the amount of speakers, twice the amount of amps, and a sub. "Average" consumers are not going to spend $10,000, or even $5000 on a HT system. To get all of this "stuff" at a price they can afford -- there has to be some serious compromises in quality. Take any given amount of money, and put it into 2 channel instead of multichannel -- and the increase in quality of sound is considerable" Could you be a little more specific,dean? What is the amount of money and which particular components are you basing your musings on? If I follow you, you're saying that one cannot buy 5 apples for the same price that another person would pay for 2 apples. Obviously. Try to come up with a little better scenerio for bashing multi-channel. Please. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 "Take any given amount of money, and put it into 2 channel instead of multichannel -- and the increase in quality of sound is considerable." Of course, I'm speaking in context of what the average person is most likely to be able to afford, say $10,000 or so. Take that amount and build a multichannel system -- then give me the same amount of money, and I'll build my two channel system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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