Tom Paslay Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 I have a pair of Cornwall II speakers that I have used in my Surround Sound Home Theater set up. I want to build a high value/$ system and wondered... A. Do I need a subwoofer with the Cornwalls to enhance the low end in DVD's? B. If I stay with the Cornwalls for my front speakers, what speakers or tech specs should I use for the center and rear speakers. C. Or..should I sell the Cornwalls and replace them with more modern speakers for the front? If yes, what would you recomend replacing them with. D. What are a pair of Cornwall II speakers worth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Definately get rid of the cornwalls, they are noting but out of date junk. Because I am feeling charitable, I will pay for shipping to me plus a nominal fee for your time. OK, back to reality, the cornwalls are part of the heritage series and are good speakers. They do not need to be replaced. You can find Heresys to match and have a very good (meaning outstanding)sounding system. one thing that you probably know it that the heritage speakers will show off flaws in your system upstream, so supply them with a good receiver or separates. If you really do want to get rid of them, and live near the west coast, let me know, my offer still stands!! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 I have a Cornwall II based HT, and I will be happy to give an opinion or six...... "I have a pair of Cornwall II speakers that I have used in my Surround Sound Home Theater set up. I want to build a high value/$ system and wondered... A. Do I need a subwoofer with the Cornwalls to enhance the low end in DVD's?" Yes, you do - and a damn good one. I've walked the walk with subs paired with Cornwall II's and found that it is not a task for the bass timid. Ideally, you want a sub kit that will keep up with your Cornwalls in both output, efficiency, and speed - a combination that most commercially available subs don't have. When I first got my Cornwalls, I went with what I felt was a modestly priced sub - the Velodyne CHT15 (about $700), and found that it was slow - muddy slow, and stuck out like a sore thumb. With music, it sounded - uhhh, like crapola. With HT, it was ok for bomb blasts and such - but poor on DVD music material. What I discovered was the sub lacked the speed of the corns on music material, and the efficiency to give the output to hang with the corns. This was very disheartening - I realized that addressing the problem properly was going to be a very expensive venture. Fortunately, I found a great deal on 2 JBL professional theatre woofer cabinets. 4 15" high efficiency, high speed, high output woofers provide the LFE worthy of the Cornwall. I spent $430 for both cabinets (2 woofers per cab), then sold the Velo and bought a Crown pro amp and Bass EQ to complete the kit. The JBL deal is over, but you might find some of these on ebay (model 4638 or 4648) - they are a cheap (but large - each cab is bigger than a Cornwall) solution to your bass needs. These are not for apartment dwellers!! On the current subwoofer market, I would look at the Klipsch RSW-15, SVS CS+ or Ultra, Velodyne HGS series, Revel...just to name a few. The SVS is an outstanding package for the money - hell, it's just an outstanding package, period. To get more specific, though, a better analysis of 1) listening room, 2)listening habits, and 3)budget is in order. Fill us in on these three, and we can get more specific here. "B. If I stay with the Cornwalls for my front speakers, what speakers or tech specs should I use for the center and rear speakers." This will depend on the room - what available space you have to set up the HT, and the number of channels you desire. Center: Ideally, you want a Cornwall II. That's not a misprint. If you can find one, a Cornwall II will provide the critical element you want in a center (and in HT in general)- timbre matching. For movies, up to 75% of your sound comes through the center, so it should be matched to the mains, and be just as robust. As the sound pans across the front three speakers (imagine a plane flying from left to right in "Pearl Harbor"), you will get a seamless panning of sound, as if it is just one big room-width speaker. Very realistic! Of course, most don't have a way to make it fit, but if you do have room, DO IT!!!! If you don't have room: are you absolutely sure that you can't make it fit??? True sonic bliss awaits you, if you can..... But if there is no way to make a third CII fit, there are two other good options: the Heresy, and the Academy. The Academy is a magnetically shielded speaker that has excellent timbre matching (especially with movie dialogue) in a smaller package - it can be placed easily atop a big screen or entertainment center, for example. The Heresy is also a good option - it is smaller and is a Heritage line speaker. Rear: Again, ideally (IMO) you want all speakers to be identical - can you say five to seven Cornwall II's? I knew you could!! Five to seven Cornwall II's would provide a near ultimate setup for HT, if you have the space to position those speakers properly. The ultimate timbre match!!! No joke - I would LOVE to do this someday. Again, if you don't have room, you can use "near matches" to accomplish the goal. In my rear, I use the Chorus I, a more narrow version of a Cornwall II - it shares the identical tweeter and mid as the Cornwall II. It's close enough (especially for rear duty) - the difference in woofers doesn't show in the sound (to my ear, anyhow) but is as robust as a Cornwall, so I get full range sound there as well (except what goes to the sub, of course). You can also use Heresys as rears as well - in a 7 channel system, 4 Heresys in the rear can provide both good timbre match and rear sound field dispersion at the same time. "C. Or..should I sell the Cornwalls and replace them with more modern speakers for the front?" Absolutely not!!!!! Trust me, you've got the goods already, you just need to add a few things to make it a home theater that will impress. Cornwalls are awesome for music and HT!! "If yes, what would you recommend replacing them with." See above. But if you really wanna go nuts (and have a room to accomodate), buy a pair of Klipschorns and a Belle for center, then put the Cornwalls in the rear. Then add a second pair of Cornwalls or Khorns for a wicked seven channel system "D. What are a pair of Cornwall II speakers worth?" Depends. I paid $700 for mine, near mint in Oil Oak finish. I've seen them sell for as low as $400-500, and as high as $1100 or so - depending on condition. The older Cornwall I can sell for a bit more, since some find the alnico magnet versions to be preferable. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckElliot Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 This past spring, I built a pair of sub-woofers to go with my 71 Cornwalls. I used NHT1259 12 drivers and pre-built 3ft^3(1 MDF) enclosures from Parts-Express. They are powered by a dedicated Anthem MCA-20 amplifier. All I can say is that it was worth every penny - for not only HT, but music too! This added to the Cornwalls makes for one awesome sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Paslay Posted December 10, 2002 Author Share Posted December 10, 2002 Hi Cool, Thanks for the reply. I live in Tustin CA, Orange County. How much would you give for my CII's? I am moving and may not want to take them with me. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Paslay Posted December 10, 2002 Author Share Posted December 10, 2002 WOW...thanks for ALL that information. Now, I just need to win the lottery to pay for all your recommendations! My room size is 22' long and 18' wide. The ceiling is 10' high. I don't have room for a CII Center. We listen to all kinds of music and watch a lot of DVD's. My budget is in the $500 to $1000 range for center, rear center, sub woofer and rear speakers combined. This is why I was thinking of selling the CII's because it cost so much to buy speakers to match the Corns. It may cost less to just by the complete Bose system. Who makes the SVS CS+ sub you mentioned? Cost range? Does it come in a complete package for a 6 channel system? Are the Heresy and Academy and Chorus speakers Klipsch products? Cost? Once again, thanks for all your time and tremendous info. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Paslay Posted December 10, 2002 Author Share Posted December 10, 2002 Chuck, Thanks for the response. How much did your system cost. I am not a tech type. I gather you are and built the speakers yourself. Is is hard to do and where do you find the material? I live in Orange County, CA. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 ---------------- On 12/10/2002 6:48:11 PM Tom Paslay wrote: It may cost less to just by the complete Bose system. ---------------- Excuse me while I wipe the Coke off the screen from when I choked reading that. OK, I'm back now... While it might be possible to find 4 Heresy speakers for less than $1000, I don't think you can get a sub that will do the CW's justice and stay in that range. The SVS subs are made by SVS ( www.svsubwoofers.com ). They only make subs, so there is no package. The Heresy, Academy, and Chorus are all Klipsch products. You can read about them under the Home Audio / Classics section of the Klipsch site. A pair of Heresy will run you about $300-400, an Academy $300-600 (based on current auctions) and a pair of Chorus will run $400 (if you're lucky) to $800 depending on condition, etc... Man, don't sell the CWs, don't do it! You'll never find anything like them for that price again! DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Paslay Posted December 10, 2002 Author Share Posted December 10, 2002 OK OK OK, Uncle I give up. I will just have to increase my budget. Thanks for the input. The next Coke is on me. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Tom Since you dont have room for another CornW for a Center. The Heresy would be a better match to the Corns than an Academy IMHO. If I were in your shoes, I would use the corns for mains, put a Heresy for Center and Heresys for sides. And put in a singe SVS Ultra. You could add the second later if you want another 6 db of power. If your patient, watch Ebay. You can find single Heresys from time to time, and pairs regularly go for $400 ish. I just got a set of Heresys for $270. Good luck with the project. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 "WOW...thanks for ALL that information. Now, I just need to win the lottery to pay for all your recommendations!" NO YOU DON'T!!!!! Patience, my friend, patience. Rome wasn't built in a day!! My system was put together almost entirely on used gear and closeouts. This stuff is all over ebay, and for Klipsch speakers, right here on this forum. Do some homework (with a little teaching and help from us), and you can put together a system that sounds like $20,000 for a small percentage of that. Getting the most for our dollar is a collective specialty here on the Klipsch forum. You really need to stay with the Heritage options, and for your dollar, the Heresys are a good bet. First, ignore your center channel. Run the center as "Phantom", which means your center sound is blended into the two Cornwalls. This is actually a good temporary fix until you find a center later. Front array solved, for now. Then look for one pair of Heresy for two rear speakers. Now you can run a 5 channel system on 4 speakers, until you can find and afford the three additional speakers to make a seven channel system. Now look for a subwoofer. This is the tough part. One SVS Ultra would certainly do the trick - then add a used pro power amp to run it. Or just buy it as a package (it is $1,299). I also recommend looking at a Klipsch RSW-15, which is usually seen at $1,500 or so, but can be had for less with a little work. Yeah, I know, good subbage is expensive. You may get lucky and find one of these used and save some dough too. This is the one area that you don't want to go cheap - take your time and get the PROPER subbage the first time. Otherwise, you'll be doing it again. A quality sub will improve your system greatly - a cheap sub will "bring it down". There are cheaper options, too - if you can find a JBL professional cabinet, that works too, and I do see these on ebay from time to time. Do searches for JBL pro, JBL subwoofer, JBL 4638, then JBL 4648. These four searches will turn these up. Some people bought a s#itload of these at the tent sale, and they sometimes decide to get rid of them. About 1000 or so units are out there, all sold in the last 16 months or so. These are VERY high quality woofers, too. Very tight and LOUD, if you want them to be. Two of these cabinets - whoa!!! One would be good enough. Klipsch makes similar models too. So, you have made two purchases, which is certainly under $2000 (with a little luck, about 1500-1600, with JBL pro cabs, even less). Your system will be impressive as it is now: Two Corns, two Heresies, and one SVS Ultra or RSW15 or JBL cabinet. Then add the center and extra speakers and subbage as you can afford it. Remember, Klipsch Heritage are really built to last - this WILL be worth your trouble. Try to listen to some of the member's systems if you get a chance - Klipsch Heritage in HT is truly "sonic bliss". Somebody on the forum: let this poster listen to your setup, and hook him in for life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 You really should keep the cornwalls. I was kidding before, but I was thinking about getting a set of chorous speakers to go with my heresys. I am ashamed to say this, but if you want to sell the cornwalls, I am interested. I live in southern nevada. Do you have any pics? By the way, did I mention that you should keep the cornwalls. No comment on the BOSE system. Chris PS: Did mention that the cornwalls are good speakers and that you may want to keep them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 If you keep the Cornwall II's and go with Heresy's for center and surrounds. I would recommend using Heresy II's for those duties. Think they would be a slighhtly better tone and tembre match than the Heresy (I's). Providing pricing is not excessive for II's vs. I's. Wes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckElliot Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 Tom, The NHT 1259 can be found at: http://www.madisound.com $150 each The Parts Express enclosures at: http://www.partsexpress.com $193 each Part# 300-732 The Amp at: http://www.anthemav.com paid $900 at local dealer Model MCA-20 $1596 Total The cool thing is that all you have to do is drill the holes for the drivers and terminals and fill the box with dampening material. The volume of 3ft^3 is perfect for the 1259. These guys make your pants breathe during FX explosions in HT. What ever you do, dont sell the Cornwalls. When I was a kid(16) my first speakers were a pair of Electro-voice Arisocrats. They were a 3 way horn system very similar to the Cornwalls, but 12 . I traded them for a set of Bose 901s, buying into the direct/reflected BS. Less than one year later, I got the Cornwalls. I hope that explains something about Bose. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 Response to the last comment (agreeing): The Bose "direct reflecting" theory completely destroys imaging. I grew up listening to my stepfather's 601's and thought that they were great. When I bought a set of JBL's I could not believe th eimaging that I began to hear. Bose is good at mass marketing a theory that goes against what the audio engineers were trying to do. Stick with the Cornwalls. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Paslay Posted December 12, 2002 Author Share Posted December 12, 2002 Thanks Chuck for all the detailed info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Paslay Posted December 12, 2002 Author Share Posted December 12, 2002 Can I ask for some more of your valuable opinions? My wife does not want floor standing speakers all over the family (HT)room. So checked out an array of Klipsch ceiling speakers for the rear set up. What do you think of using SCW2 or RCW5's? Also, I just do not have any room for large center. I only have 8" of space above the built in TV to fit a center. Could I use an SCW2 or RCW5 in the ceiling above the TV as a center? If not what would you recommend? Our home is under construction and I am going there next week to wire for the speakers before the drywall goes up. Any recommendations on cable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Since they haven't drywalled yet, can you modify the opening for your TV so you have more room above/below it for a larger center channel speaker? My concern with using ceiling mounted speakers across the front is that they might just be too far away from the screen to sound realistic... DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Paslay Posted December 12, 2002 Author Share Posted December 12, 2002 Hi Doug, I can't modify the area. The ceiling is 10' (4' above the TV). What about the rest of my questions? Your opinion? Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 "Can I ask for some more of your valuable opinions? My wife does not want floor standing speakers all over the family (HT)room." Uh oh....you are in trouble. Not looking good. Somebody get me a doctor - resuscitation may be necessary Stop him before the wife sees the Bo$e....... Option one: Ignore the wife. Option two: Listen to her, then ignore the wife. Option three: Bust out your sales skills, or just bring her to my home theater in Illinois. Bring her favorite movie. "So checked out an array of Klipsch ceiling speakers for the rear set up. What do you think of using SCW2 or RCW5's?" I don't - not with Cornwalls. There went the timbre matching - right out the window. You could change series entirely (IOW, get rid of the Cornwalls - ohhh the pain). If you want an in wall system, you would want fronts to match. You are building this new dwelling/listening area, so you now have a big decision to make: Heritage or In wall?? Whatever you do, get all of the drivers to match timbre. If you leave the Heritage behind, you leave the sound behind to a large degree as well, because the in wall system cannot hang with a Cornwall/Heritage based HT - no way. Just looking at the speakers and drivers tells me this. They are good for what they are, but most certainly a compromise. One option would be to replace the Cornwalls with a set of RF-7's, then use the in walls as surrounds. I don't know about the center, though. The CW series in walls are similar drivers to the RF line, your mains would be strong, even if the in walls aren't as robust. RF-7's are pretty serious mains in their own right. I must say that going in wall is really out of my area of expertise, especially when it comes to setting up the speakers in the room. Building speakers into walls opens a whole new can of worms that I am not familiar with. Any in wall HT users here?? "Also, I just do not have any room for large center. I only have 8" of space above the built in TV to fit a center. Could I use an SCW2 or RCW5 in the ceiling above the TV as a center? If not what would you recommend?" Are you sure?? If you can get creative, you only have 4" to go, and the Academy will fit just perfectly. If not, I am not sure on the other options - but 8" high doesn't leave much room for a center. I don't think that an RCR wuld be robust enough for a center (especially if you want good mains, like RF-7's), but maybe someone can shed some light here. "Our home is under construction and I am going there next week to wire for the speakers before the drywall goes up. Any recommendations on cable?" I think Justintx did an in-wall install on wires - I will defer to him and the rest of the forum on this one. If only we had known about your system plans before construction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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