maxg Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 I seem to remember reading that various groups are working on producing surround sound via 2 channels some time ago. I think that I have just found out that this is amazingly possible. After 3 months of searching I finaly located myself a copy of Roger Waters Amused to Death double album (on vinyl of course). This morning I found myself alone with my system at home (working from home at the moment) and thought I would take advantage for a quick listen. That was about 2 hours ago so the morning kinda got away from me. Anyway I pumped up the volume a bit and let this album rip. It definitely rates as one of the best recorded albums I own, but, it has this amazing facility to pump out the speaking voices as if they are coming out of a left rear speaker. As I dont own a left rear speaker this is most impressive!! I should add that this album is the most expensive I ever bought at $100, but I stll rate it as the best buy I have made to date in software. FWIW - just try to find a copy on the net!!! I found one going on ebay a few weeks ago but the price was at $180 with 5 days left. That was the same copy I have - the limited edition version with the booklet. Last night Tony ripped it to CD but it doesnt realy come off - all the impact disappears, as is ever the case ith CD I suppose... Anyway - just thought I would share. At some point I will post a list of some of my recent classical finds, some of which are simply sublime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted December 17, 2002 Author Share Posted December 17, 2002 No comments?? Nothing at all? was it something I said? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Max, For over a quarter of a century, I have been pushing my speakers with an H/K 900+...pretty much continuously. It is a quad receiver. One of its features, though, is a function called "enhanced stereo". This function is designed to take standard stereo signals and replicate a four-channel surround sound from them. I have to admit, it does one helluva job, too! I frankly believe that it MAY just be a circuit akin to the Hafler circuit, though...which has been mentioned by other BB members, particularly in this "2-channel" forum. In this replication process, the front left and right signals are not affected, but what comes out in the rear speakers is NOT the same as in the front speakers, either! It really makes movie watching come alive, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 I had purchased a NuReality Vivid 3D Theater in 1995 which incorporated SRS (Sound Retrieval System) technology like many televisions and broadcasts. It would do amazing things if you were sitting in the sweetspot. You would be in the stadium at the concert with just two speakers. Its only problem is that it needed to be adjusted all the time (had center and surround effects controls) and also the sound would collapse if you moved from the sweetspot. Now they do circle surround and trusurround implementations. The stuff is very similar to other implementations like QSurround that uses phase and frequency shifting to change positioning ques. I believe the Final Cut by Pink Floyd was promoted for listing through headphones to get the full effect of this. Here is a link to an interesting page. http://www.iasig.org/pubs/industry/engines2.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Since we(humans most of us) only have two ears it is due almost entirely to timing differences that we can tell where a sound originates, not only left and right but up, down, near and far as well. There are these things called Binaural microphones which are merely two microphones mounted in something that is shaped like the human head with the mics being placed where the eardrums would go. Something recorded in binuaral gives you the ability to hear "true" surround out of a pair of headphones. I think there was a Pearl Jam album recorded this way a few years ago. Listening to something recorded in binaural normally only works in headphones or if you have the speakers directly on either side of you, however I'm guessing that if you had your speakers wide enough apart and loud enough your ears might be fooled into getting the surround effect. How loud were you listening to that Roger Waters album Max? Does the surround effect still happen when you listen at low volumes? My guess is that it does not happen at lower volumes, but I could be wrong. Peace, Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted December 17, 2002 Author Share Posted December 17, 2002 Well Josh - LOUD!!! I dont know the dB rating but it was as loud as I have ever played anything whilst listening on my own. I usually have the volume pots at 2 clicks above silent, ocasionally 4 clicks (which is starting to get loud). This was 8 clicks!! I have no idea if the effect works at lower volume levels - will try it out and report back but I have a feeling it will still work, although maybe without the startle effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Max, I have a question what software is tony using to ripp the LP's to CD ?? Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Hi Max ! I use an old QD-1 with my system and find it does add a dimension to most recordings particularly live recordings where there is an audience in a hall etc. The QD-1 is a passive device but because my KLF30's are umpteen times as efficient as the Radio Shack Minimus 7's I use for rear effects I had to cheat a bit and amplify the output from the rear channel connections of the QD-1. All in all it works well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted December 19, 2002 Author Share Posted December 19, 2002 Josh, Just listened again to the Amused to Death album and I can tell you that the surround sound effect is maintained even at much lower volumes (84 dB at my listening position). If anything it actually works better at these volume levels and the speaking voices (as opposed to the singing voices) now appear to be coming out of a rear centre channel. Nos, Tony rips CD's on a dedicated CD recorder from Sony. I cant remember the model number but it is the one down from the top of their range (as was when he bought it). Generally we have found that it produces far better copies of CD's than computer based units (for example my Plextor 40/12/40 unit with the Nero burning rom software). We havent tried the computer for burning copies of albums - maybe that is the next step... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 Maxg, Very interesting, I'll have to keep an eye out for that album. Lately I've been listening to The Rolling Stones "Tattoo You" album from '81. I'm certainly going to be spending my music money on vinyl a whole lot more than CD. For the cost of used vinyl I certainly get more enjoyment out of it when compared to the sound of 90% of the CD's out there. Since I "discovered" vinyl about a week ago I have barely been able to make myself listen to CD's. A friend of mine at school has a Pink Floyd album he's going to bring over to have a listen after Christmas break. btw, which speakers are you currently using??(heresy or sansui) Peace, Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted December 20, 2002 Author Share Posted December 20, 2002 Josh, I think I am about 8 months ahead of you on the vinyl thing, and 500+ albums!! Warning : Vinyl is addictive and tends to lead a need for loft storage space for long ignored CD's. As for my speakers I am currently running the Sansui's almost permanently now. I have a cunning plan for the Heresy's however, which will mean I dont have to give them up completely. More on this after the Xmas / New Year festivities... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altavoz Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 I find the old sonic hologram technology from Carver gives the best quasi-surround effect with two speakers. It works by cancelling crosstalk between left and right channels. A big drawback is the time that it takes to set the speakers equidistant and the elusiveness of the effect when one moves from the sweet spot. The effect is stunning with speakers like Klipsch and just about any Pink Floyd album, including oldies like "Meddle" and "Atom Heart Mother". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 ---------------- On 12/20/2002 5:57:27 AM maxg wrote: Josh, I think I am about 8 months ahead of you on the vinyl thing, and 500+ albums!! Warning : Vinyl is addictive and tends to lead a need for loft storage space for long ignored CD's. ---------------- Oh dear, Either I will end up broke or I will have to stop eating out. Peace, Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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