Hofy Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Tom, Basically what they are saying is, don't turn your 299 into a money pit. Enjoy it for what it is, a Scott 299. (Also it is still tubes, not solid state. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Sure is nice to have mdeneen back, nothing like having the issues clarified.... Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted January 23, 2003 Author Share Posted January 23, 2003 Hofy, Don't get me wrong, I love this little music maker, it's definitley my therapy. This is my first tube amp & I can't imagine it getting better than this. I have intentions of furthering my listening experience and knowledge of tube audio. Is a slow boat of course, it takes time to digest what you're hearing and in all honesty, the tech end is at the moment way over my head, as for I don't have even a basic knowledge of electrical circuits. I'm not one to blow smoke up peoples a$$es with Bullsh*t, I'm not hear to impress anyone but to learn. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted January 23, 2003 Author Share Posted January 23, 2003 Not rough at all bro, you said it the way it is, and in an insightful way. Thankx Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 A full triode front end in an integrated is VERY important, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Mark, Are you saying, in a round-about way, that you'd like me to send my 500c to you for updates? fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Based on the comments by ole Mark earlier, he would rather sit in a vat of whey than mess with modifying any amp, let along a big ole receiver. It's so nice to look within those vintage pull-pull and modern SET amps to see....NOTHING! So simple. A vintage receiver looks like Satan waved a wire wand with a half smirk. Though it's amazing how good the damn things can sound despite all of this. Do a basic search on the vintage integrateds and amps that employed full triode front ends. You list will not be that long, especially in the integrated field, although a few stand out. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 I always thought the real strength of the 299/299B was the phono section. I think it's the best of ANY vintage integrated I've ever owned/heard. I was kind of shocked to read the comment about the bad RIAA curve. It romps with Mullards (old long-plates if you can find them) by the way. I think that the best way to enjoy these things (old, inexpensive hi-fi gear) is to bring them up to snuff and listen to records as often as you can. My suggestion to go for really nice tubes is a good one for a couple of reasons-- first, your "stock" 299 will never sound better and second, you will always be able to SELL them later and recoup your "investment." When I sell gear on ebay I ALWAYS strip out the good tubes and stuff working "junk" in them and sell the good tubes separately or keep them. Recently I sold a McIntosh MC240 with late Philips 6L6GC and a combo of Russian and Japanese tubes--I still got $1400! I then sold the RCA 6L6GC black-lates that were in the amp for an additional $335!!! And I kept all the other tubes in my "stash." Believe me, you should really ****-can that Russian rectifier FIRST and scare up a Mullard on ebay--used and tested from a seller with a good reputation. They sell all the time in the $30-$40 range. This will be the best $40 you can spend on the 299. As far as the 7189s go, I agree that a set of Mullards or Telefunkens might set you back a couple of hundred bucks, but if you don't hear a big enough improvement, you can SELL them! A set of GE, RCA or Sylvania can be had for much less. Believe it or not, I sold a quad of Amperex Bugle Boy 7189 for about $50 last year! They were used but good. Sorry I snapped at you last night--I worked a 16 hour day and was REALLY tired! Enjoy your 299! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Mark, That was great. A triple bypass? I actually DID LOL! fini UPDATE: I laughed so hard I coughed up a few nuvistors...ouch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted January 23, 2003 Author Share Posted January 23, 2003 No appologies necessary, I will look into that rectifier, its worth a try at that price, and also the 6u8's if I can find them. Thankx Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Hmmm. My little SET amps weigh 50lbs a piece. Gee, I guess I bought the wrong amps. Someone once said I should buy my amps by the pound... So, what are these standout integrateds with the triode front end? I would imagine the Eico with the Williamson circuit is one. Scotts are ruled out here because they are pentode (that is right...right?). So what else is there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 I have a 10B that I bought about 15 years ago that doesn't work and I have been meaning to do something about that ever since. I get ambitious every once in a while and take it down off of the shelf. The ambition fades as soon as I look at a schematic. I should sell it on ebay "as is" for a few hundred dollars, but I just can't seem to rid myself of this one. Mike Zuccaro told me once that Marantz lost $100 on every 10B they sold--a real "ego" product if there ever was one. The real nightmare receivers are the mid-1970's Japanese "top of the line" units. I opened up one once--Alice lost in Wonderland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Mark, I hear you on the simplicity issue! But have you picked up any of the more recent SET amps, especially the stereo versions? The iron is H E A V Y and there is nothing light weight about it. Obviously, with most tube amps, the weight comes from the transformers. A SET amp with something like MagneQuest FS-030 and a potent power trans weighs more than a host of EL-34/KT-88 amps. So it's not the weight as much as the amazing simplicity of the circuit wiring, something I find is shared with the vintage push pull amps as well. What's amazing is what ISNT there in these excellent PP examples (although you dont see chokes used too often, something that more modern designs use to good benefit). You cant get much more simple than this: Compare this to a vintage receiver and you see the problem. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Yep. I picked up that damn EL-34 amp that I have been thinking of sending to Craig.... HOLY MOTHERLOAD! I almost tore a hole in my spleen!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Well on the subject of pentodes in the front end I truely believe most of you are way over stressing the importance of this. I mean your ruling out some of the most popular amps in the vintage arena as second rate !! Like Mark 1,2,3,4, ST-70's SCA-35 and so on !! I've had 3 EICO's HF-81's and a pair of HF-12's here with there all triode front end and have had many other push pull designs that have went thru these doors so far. I think the difference if the circuit is done right is non issue. I think Mark gets his opinion from Dynaco's implematation which was done badly to say the least. The Dynaco's were mostly Kits and built to a budget but they have excellent Iron !! What's real great about them is thousands were sold so they is a after market of heathy suppliers to rid yourself of there pourly done front end. Once again you can't call a horse a horse because it may be a stallion !! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Mark Oh I agree that there is better ways to do it ! But to knock it whole heartedly is kind of extreme. Its not going to make a night and day difference. The work it would take would be extreme wouldn't you say ? To get back the gain it would require 4 tubes in place of the 2 and there just isn't room for them. Scott amps sound fine with the pentode section. If its objectionable go buy a set of power amps and a preamp is my suggestion. I've listened to many integrated amps with and without a pentode/triode phase splitters I'll be darned if I can hear a difference compared to the Scott's in fact in 99.999% of the cases the Scott sounds better to me. I just think you can't judge a amp because of one section of one tube in a amp is pentode. After all there are 11 tubes in the amp ! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Ahh now I understand what your getting at. On the Mark III's I was astonished with the difference from start to finish. But it really wasn't a fair comparison because the stock circuit was far from Ideal for my initial listening. I found weak and leaking electrolytics as I rebuild the circuit. So I'm sure there is a big difference when updating the front end and PS supply its probably not as profound a difference if the stock circuit is in good working order. I may take a slower approach with my ST-70 project and bring the stock circuit up to snuff and then start changing things just to see what get the most bang for the buck so to speak. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCturboT Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 ---------------- On 1/23/2003 1:33:10 AM deang wrote: Though the RF-3 is a fine speaker -- your next logical step is a speaker upgrade. If you could swing $800, you could land Jeff's Cornwalls. ---------------- Sorry guys-sold the Cornwalls to a gentleman out in Western MA. Actually I think they're going back to Germany with him soon. I am going to hand deliver 'em myself to avoid any damage. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCturboT Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Stay tuned-I have some interesting comments about the Cornwalls,the Klipschorns, and the Stingray-as well as a Solid State amp. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 I'd like to see a $30 resistor. Mark, interested to know. When moving from carbon resistors ala Allen Bradley etc to generic 1% metal films, have you heard a difference, both measuring the same? kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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