NOSValves Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 10 minutes ago, Don A. Childs said: I'm have sympathy for price restraint..... however...I have crawled up product lines buying the next upgrade in my components until it dawned on me that if I added up the cost of replacing this or that multiple times was adding up to an amount I thought I couldn't "justify". The Klipsch speaker line is an example. I've owned almost everything but the Khorn and Jubilee. If I had just bought my Lascalas immediately I would have saved a considerable sum. (Although all my friends and family now own some great speakers! lol My son enjoys his RF7's!)) After buying SS amps/receivers I decided to stop this tactic. After MUCH consideration I bought the Raven Audio Nighthawk tube integrated. Lascala and Raven is a match that will blow your mind. BUT at $2999 it far exceeds your dollar limit by a wild margin. However....you don't know what will finally scratch that itch. (One hopes that Maybe the cheaper step will be ok until the lower performance drives you crazy) Interesting and probably a wise approach...but the first thing I read when searching the amplifier mentioned it's considered Raven entry level product.... So, the question is when is the cheaper step going cause the lower performance drive you nuts LOL!! I foresee an itch coming your way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don A. Childs Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Steve Huff did a review on the Raven Audio Nighthawk you may want to "google" it to see how he interpreted "entry level". The Nighthawk is the "entry level" for the Raven company (which tells you more about how good it gets going up their line from their 'entry level') but the sound quality is... well....I've owned one and its fantastic. Especially with Klipsch speakers! Maybe because this is my first tube amp since the 1970's (when tube amps had a few details to refine {McIntosh} ). Any way they have a 45 days trial deal if you aren't thrilled to pieces. I was simply blown away by the "human-ness" of the vocals and realism of the music in general. In fact, not to go crazy, my Lascalas exhibited many of the classic negative characteristics too often regurgitated by so-called Klipsch critics. But with the Raven Nighthawk for the first time I felt like I had achieved a level of musical reproduction that was above and beyond any expectations I had for what I'd ever be able to afford. No itch yet... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 2 hours ago, Don A. Childs said: Steve Huff did a review on the Raven Audio Nighthawk you may want to "google" it to see how he interpreted "entry level". The Nighthawk is the "entry level" for the Raven company (which tells you more about how good it gets going up their line from their 'entry level') but the sound quality is... well....I've owned one and its fantastic. Especially with Klipsch speakers! Maybe because this is my first tube amp since the 1970's (when tube amps had a few details to refine {McIntosh} ). Any way they have a 45 days trial deal if you aren't thrilled to pieces. I was simply blown away by the "human-ness" of the vocals and realism of the music in general. In fact, not to go crazy, my Lascalas exhibited many of the classic negative characteristics too often regurgitated by so-called Klipsch critics. But with the Raven Nighthawk for the first time I felt like I had achieved a level of musical reproduction that was above and beyond any expectations I had for what I'd ever be able to afford. No itch yet... Well in my 35 years of satisfying countless Klipsch owners just about all I've heard back from report they have none of the supposed Klipsch shortcomings... In my opinion most of those short coming were garnished during the era where solid state ruled the day and tubes were a thing of the past... Mind you at least 80% of those satisfied customer garnished that satisfaction from the amps you say "had a few details to refine" . My point is engineers educated in the 40's through the 60's {not me} were trained specifically with tubes as the one and only electronic device used in just about all electronics. Those guys forgot more about designing tube gear than these modern guys have or ever will learn.. As far as reading some professional reviewers opinion no thanks most of not all of those folks are bought and paid for by the industry either directly or indirectly... Never heard or read a bad review of the product regardless of how god awful it is... or they refrain from publishing the reviews since the manufacturers will cut off the advertising funds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don A. Childs Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 No fault to my Lascalas if I used a crap SS receiver! I recall PWK used a Crown SS amp. (Crown was super in the day) Raven Audio is a small company in Texas not exactly doling out the dough to get positive biased reviews. To say this of Raven Audio doesn't mean there isn't alot of bias and "incentive" for reviewers to kiss up tp the big money companies to secure future free equipment to "Review". Sounds like a great gig if you can get it! lol However, the more consistent reason you rarely if ever read a bad review of anything is many reviewers when confronted with a sour piece of kit will simply not publish the negative review based on the old adage: If you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all. Even so, I have read reviews where you can tell the reviewer is struggling to find some redeeming qualities even if by comparison. (Its better than BLAH, BLAH, BLAH) Robinson's review of the Lascala is fantastic and reflects what we all know. He now personally owns Lascalas as his main speakers. I doubt Klipsch needed to slip him $50 or a half off coupon to entice him to write a positive review. The sad thing is as brick and mortar stores are closing fewer of us can audition the options before we buy. Reading reviews and trying to read between the lines of said reviews unfortunately becomes the default method of choosing equipment. Sad really but those HI-Fi rooms never were ideal environments to base a decision on anyway. I should know, I sold McIntosh, etc. All this to say, as a new member here, its great to be rubbing elbows with all of you Klipsch aficionados. I hope to learn alot and maybe tips on how to give my Lascalas every advantage so they can shine even brighter! The improvement with the integrated tube amp definitely showed me the only thing holding Lascalas back is what goes into them! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don A. Childs Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Great clip! Well worth watching! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 46 minutes ago, Don A. Childs said: No fault to my Lascalas if I used a crap SS receiver! I recall PWK used a Crown SS amp. klipsch Engineering still use these identical Crown amps in the Lab in Hope Arkansas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 35 minutes ago, OO1 said: klipsch Engineering still use these identical Crown amps in the Lab in Hope Arkansas DC-300 or DC 150? Just curious, I bought and used both 40 or so years ago. Actually still have both. The DC300 was a tank original made for professional use. Crown back then was known for some to the best in reel to reel players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 hour ago, Don A. Childs said: No fault to my Lascalas if I used a crap SS receiver! I recall PWK used a Crown SS amp. (Crown was super in the day) Raven Audio is a small company in Texas not exactly doling out the dough to get positive biased reviews. To say this of Raven Audio doesn't mean there isn't alot of bias and "incentive" for reviewers to kiss up tp the big money companies to secure future free equipment to "Review". Sounds like a great gig if you can get it! lol However, the more consistent reason you rarely if ever read a bad review of anything is many reviewers when confronted with a sour piece of kit will simply not publish the negative review based on the old adage: If you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all. Even so, I have read reviews where you can tell the reviewer is struggling to find some redeeming qualities even if by comparison. (Its better than BLAH, BLAH, BLAH) Robinson's review of the Lascala is fantastic and reflects what we all know. He now personally owns Lascalas as his main speakers. I doubt Klipsch needed to slip him $50 or a half off coupon to entice him to write a positive review. The sad thing is as brick and mortar stores are closing fewer of us can audition the options before we buy. Reading reviews and trying to read between the lines of said reviews unfortunately becomes the default method of choosing equipment. Sad really but those HI-Fi rooms never were ideal environments to base a decision on anyway. I should know, I sold McIntosh, etc. All this to say, as a new member here, its great to be rubbing elbows with all of you Klipsch aficionados. I hope to learn alot and maybe tips on how to give my Lascalas every advantage so they can shine even brighter! The improvement with the integrated tube amp definitely showed me the only thing holding Lascalas back is what goes into them! Just a small little company in Texas... I easily looked up that they rake in 5 million a year gross sales... Far small a small business that can't grease a few advertisers hands to get good reviews in the magazine both print and online.. hell it has been the audio industry standard business practice since audio became a hobby. Steve Hoffman. Your kidding me right! Old Steve has never reviewed a peice of gear he didn't get to keep. He tried to negotiate that exact deal with Klipsch on Klipsch horns but at the time Klipsch refused. So in essence you agree reviews are biased👍 When the reviewer is getting thousands of dollars worth of gear plus being paid by the publication how can the reviews not be biased? I think you might be a snow flake 🤷 So I stand by my statement I don't give reviews from paid reviewers any credence.. I'm really sorry found your advice hypocritical... I didn't think you'd get you panties on such a ruffle! PS: I don't recall stating ALL solid state amps are bad with Klipsch speakers... Please don't put words in my mouth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 18 minutes ago, henry4841 said: DC-300 or DC 150? Crown D-75 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 hour ago, jjptkd said: It is a great clip .. great clip full of BS! Reviewers are just a piece in the massive machine that keeps the audiofool business rolling. The idea that some new refreshing tricks have been found in tube audio some nearly 60 years after they were mainstream is just silly... Solid State has also been figured out to a T for decades hence the reason Klipsch still has those great crown amps! They also have tube amps in house too! The reviewers job is to keep the BS rolling over top of audiofools heads! Get that money! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 By the way folks don't make assumptions about me, as I type this in my study I'm using a early 70's Kenwood KA-7002 Solid State integrated amp with my original Heresy speakers the Kenwood was refurbished by Paul at Many Moons Audio. Sounds spectacular in this 12' X 14' room. I paid $40 for it LOL now that is a good review! The refurb was about $500. I'll take this over 95% of the over priced crap in audio rags! The only part of audio I don't is the BS.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 One correction I mistakenly thought you were referencing Steve Hoffman as the reviewer but I just noticed my error. Was looking up some other information on some modern tube amps a ran into his Steve Huff highly advertising laden website....if you really think that guy is not motivated by the almighty $ I feel sorry for you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don A. Childs Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Correction: I did NOT say you had said "all SS amps are bad with Klipsch speakers".? What I said was: "No fault to my Lascalas if I used a crap SS receiver." And my 'receiver' was crap relative to the quality of Klipsch Lascalas. Clear? Secondly, Steve Huff ended up buying that Raven amp for himself at full retail. (I checked with owner of Raven personally) [He could have lied to me] Third, if a company was stupid enough to directly bribe a reviewer to send out a review contrary to the truth, wouldn't "audiofools" who buy crap realize eventually the reviewer LIED and they were scammed? The long term "job security" of any reviewer is to develop an audience which learns to trust that said reviewer is being trustworthy and truthful. Maybe I hold my fellow human beings in too high of state? However, even if nothing but evil self interest motivates them, it is still to their personal advantage to be honest reviewers because their reputation determines their future monetary security. Anyway, most of us don't have a choice but to try and evaluate reviews of products we might want. I can't afford to drive to wherever to hear whatever in a specially designed (or not) soundroom. Thank you for pointing out my "hypocrisy" however. As a new member here as of a week in, I never realized this forum would care enough for members to engage in personal character attacks in the hopes to spare "audiofools" a lifetime of wasting money and effort! Your efforts will not be in vain I trust. My gullible trusting nature has gotten me in trouble more than once before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 On 1/15/2024 at 8:24 AM, Don A. Childs said: I bought the Raven Audio Nighthawk tube integrated. Lascala and Raven is a match that will blow your mind. This is the only thing that matters-- that it sounds good to you in your room with your speakers. I would ignore the naysayers especially those who build and sell their own gear for profit kind of funny how they can criticize others for trying to make a buck what do they say about glass houses? In this day and age there are a lot of good quality options out there for just about any budget, no one has the corner on the market for good sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don A. Childs Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Consider risking millions in investment money! Lets say Raven Audio decides to try and bribe Steve Huff to write a good review no matter what he hears. Imagine the headline: "Raven Audio bribes reviewer to say their crap don't stink!" Business: CLOSED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, Don A. Childs said: Correction: I did NOT say you had said "all SS amps are bad with Klipsch speakers".? What I said was: "No fault to my Lascalas if I used a crap SS receiver." And my 'receiver' was crap relative to the quality of Klipsch Lascalas. Clear? Secondly, Steve Huff ended up buying that Raven amp for himself at full retail. (I checked with owner of Raven personally) [He could have lied to me] Third, if a company was stupid enough to directly bribe a reviewer to send out a review contrary to the truth, wouldn't "audiofools" who buy crap realize eventually the reviewer LIED and they were scammed? The long term "job security" of any reviewer is to develop an audience which learns to trust that said reviewer is being trustworthy and truthful. Maybe I hold my fellow human beings in too high of state? However, even if nothing but evil self interest motivates them, it is still to their personal advantage to be honest reviewers because their reputation determines their future monetary security. Anyway, most of us don't have a choice but to try and evaluate reviews of products we might want. I can't afford to drive to wherever to hear whatever in a specially designed (or not) soundroom. Thank you for pointing out my "hypocrisy" however. As a new member here as of a week in, I never realized this forum would care enough for members to engage in personal character attacks in the hopes to spare "audiofools" a lifetime of wasting money and effort! Your efforts will not be in vain I trust. My gullible trusting nature has gotten me in trouble more than once before. First off let's get something clear.... I did not accuse or mention bribes... Again words getting put in my post that are not there... I said reviewers are either directly or indirectly paid by the industry... The rags or online websites you read these glowing reviews would not exist without the advertisers... So most of not all the reviewers income is coming from the same folks he is reviewing... Again either directly or indirectly. If you want to believe the owner of Raven on what the reviewer paid or didn't pay for the product well that is your decision. I know what I think. By the way I find it interesting that you seem hell bent defending these professional reviewers over me making the simple comment that I give little credence in what they have to say... I give what you the retail user have to say about the product much more then paid reviewers. UNTIL all you have to say is what they have already written. What I do find real funny is I just waste an hour reading through a few of his reviews.... Comparing 3.... His review of the R8, the R300 and then one on a Pass Labs separates system... To me they all were regurgitations of the same phrases. One thing that struck me on the Pass Labs is I read he still had the system after 8 months! Hmmm does he buy the equipment from all these companies? If so how does he ever make a dime? Or is he making an ungodly amount from advertisers on his website that he can just buy the stuff? Either way good for him but I'm not basing my audio decisions on his or any professional paid reviewers words. I'll use the reviews of regular everyday consumers that don't seem to be regurgitating those same platitudes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, jjptkd said: This is the only thing that matters-- that it sounds good to you in your room with your speakers. I would ignore the naysayers especially those who build and sell their own gear for profit kind of funny how they can criticize others for trying to make a buck what do they say about glass houses? In this day and age there are a lot of good quality options out there for just about any budget, no one has the corner on the market for good sound. No one including me ever said the Raven Audio stuff does not sound good .. read carefully how all this started. That was never the point. I found a couple things he stated about his journey that seemed ironic... He brought up professional reviewers to prove his point which he didn't need to prove. My statements have never been about how his system performs..or about Raven audio... Let's not skew what is happening here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 11 minutes ago, Don A. Childs said: Consider risking millions in investment money! Lets say Raven Audio decides to try and bribe Steve Huff to write a good review no matter what he hears. Imagine the headline: "Raven Audio bribes reviewer to say their crap don't stink!" Business: CLOSED Again please read through what I have written show me where I said anything sounds horrible in anyway, also show where I mentioned bribes? You sure need to grow a little thicker skin and learn how to properly comprehend what you are reading... This all started by me pointing out you suggesting people not cut $ spent because in the end they will throw away a bunch of money flipping gear to end up at the same audio place. I looked up what you had and found it to be the companies own professed beginner or entry level product... I could help but bring up the irony... You got your panties on the wad over it and responded with Steve Huff review crap .. so I responded with what I thought about professional reviews... That got your panties in a larger wad...... In the end I'm glad your happy with your system at a somewhat bargain price.. I suspect you'll be rolling more gear in at some point let us know what the reviewers say about it! PS the truth of the matter is most of this is pointless! Nothing new to discover in amplification! Even digital amps are pretty much completely figured out. In my opinion hasn't been anything really new for decades. Companies have to keep releasing the next supposed breakthrough otherwise close there doors. It's the nature of the beast... Heck most of us are using speakers designed well over 60 years ago! That ought to tell you something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, jjptkd said: This is the only thing that matters-- that it sounds good to you in your room with your speakers. I would ignore the naysayers especially those who build and sell their own gear for profit kind of funny how they can criticize others for trying to make a buck what do they say about glass houses? In this day and age there are a lot of good quality options out there for just about any budget, no one has the corner on the market for good sound. I no longer build new products (well I rarely do it)... Semi-retired ya know... So you are barking up the wrong tree! I work when I feel like it or need some mad money! No apology required! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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