Bill H. Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 m00n said- "Get some of you Heritage guys over to hear a modern system rather than that moldy oldy stuff you guys use. J/K... maybe, " ---------------- Ok m00n- Remember the imortal words of Smokey the Bear - "Only you can prevent forest fires" ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgie Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 m00n The room is looking awesome!!!! Can't let the hubby see the pics though... He would be so jealous. That is what he wants so badly, but we absolutely do not have the room. It would mean buying a new house. Keep up the good work. Anticipating the finished project. BTW, I like the curtain idea for under the screen. Since you are planning on putting fabric on the walls, that would add to the real "theater" look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Yea verily, the m00n continues to rise... and the entire Forum is intoxicated with his HT m00nshine still... okay but it doesn't stay "still" very long... and on top of it all, his WAF rating is even higher than his diaper changing skills! Your HT is looking good, friend m00n, and I especially applaud your putting an RF-7 in the middle to get everything out of the middle a modern DVD has to offer. While my horizontalized Klipsch floor standers completely eliminate the lack of authenticity that dipoles, bipoles and tripoles (WDST) create... they also bring out the best that timbre matching, directional detail and the audio engineers intent as recorded on the DVD. With well engineered 5.1 (or above) DVD's coming available every day, I'll take listening to the real thing any day over deliberately clouding the experience by a system designed for another audio era... and designed to forgive bad room acoustics rather than celebrate good ones. If you put the time, expense and "wrist" into building a better acoustic environment... why hide its dynamics under a bushel of speaker induced acoustic mush? Oh, yeah, and while I am in "myth exploding" mode, the flat black approach is less viable for your optics than a neutral gray. Very dark or very light backgrounds against a screen create aberrations on your ocular internal processing. The best bet, so the experts say, is to use a neutral shade... and that, ideally, is the shade of gray that pro photogs used to orient a roll of color film for precise processing of color hues. The set up disk, "Video Essentials" is getting a bit long in the tooth... but speaks eloquently for the gray background... and also the full size middle speaker standing upright. Where "Video Essentials" has fallen behind the times is in its "ProLogic" approach to surround speakers, inept handling of subwoofer potential, and failure to include the rear center for the 6.1 reality that is available with current receiver and DVD technology. I look forward to the day when the m00n rises above the "Video Essentials" of yesteryear. =HornED PS: I used a commercial grade, short napped, mottled gray carpet the walls of my better quality showroom theaters... and will use a similar wall treatment to the stand alone theater to be built in a lovely box canyon with a year 'round flowing waterfall... it's 140+ acres of pristine forest and it its only entrance is an easement through the property I now enjoy. Dawn has broken as I write this from my second story office... and the wild deer have come out of the forest to nibble their way across the lawns... yes for all the joy of Klipsch sound and DVD high definition images... the sound and site of natural things serves as a reminder of what audio video ought to be. Be well my friends. H.E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Oops... there's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the double dip... I think I need to hit the hot cafeine dispenser again. Those extra posts just seem to hop up ever since cluless sent me that pet yurt. Sorry for the double post. =HornED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 "Dawn has broken as I write this from my second story office... and the wild deer have come out of the forest to nibble their way across the lawns... yes for all the joy of Klipsch sound and DVD high definition images... the sound and site of natural things serves as a reminder of what audio video ought to be. Be well my friends. H.E." Wow - sounds like the best of both worlds, Ed. And you be well, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 although the former 'wood-tone' wall paneling in my ht room has been painted flat black, i DID paint the bricks pewter gray, so maybe i was paying attention to some bit of info about that gray color h.e. was referring to there are a number of things i did that i 'lucked-out' on,(the ceiling, for example, looks flat-black when the light source is in front of you, as in when you are looking at the screen or tv, but if the light source is behind you, you can clearly see the blue sponge paint highlights!)or maybe it was some subliminal knowledge i had repressed avman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted May 6, 2003 Author Share Posted May 6, 2003 Horn, I know your a true beliver in directs and would like to see me with RF7s all the way around. But I worry that, considering my room is only 10' wide the directs would be tooooooooo direct. That there would not be a nice smooth pan from front to side. In a wider room, I would image you could get away with directs. Heck if I even had 4 more feet where I had 2 more feet on each side... If I was to rid myself of my RS7s, I would replace them with RC7s rather than RF7s. Reason is, is because I would get a wider spray across my seating which would help with the directionality. I dunno horn... You tell me. I have a narrow room, don't you think a direct speaker that is only going to be at MAX 4 feet away from you going to sound just a little too direct? It would seem to me that there is just not enough distance between the listening position and the speaker for the sound waves to get out there, spread around some to help create an aumbiance... RF7s are out of the question as surrounds in this room, I simply don't have space for them, but RC7s perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted May 6, 2003 Author Share Posted May 6, 2003 ---------------- On 5/6/2003 5:34:52 AM Bill H. wrote: Remember the imortal words of Smokey the Bear - "Only you can prevent forest fires" ..... ---------------- Yeah... I was just poking the dog through the fence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Nothing like critigism after a few months hard work, huh m00n? I think your HT room looks great fella! Bet it sounds good too. Hears a few words from someone that actually reviewed your speaker system, with RS-7 surrounds. "the surround speakers were asked to reproduce a wraparound gospel choir while simultaneously contributing to the "sphere of reverb" that enfolds Neville's voice. The RS-7's proved easily up to this task. The reverb sphere remained seamless and the choir sounded smooth and natural". "I'd expect a lesser system to suffer from excessive localization of the surrounds or a tonal mismatch in the front channels. The Klipsch system never exhibited any of these faults, delivering fine detail and fully integrated surround from beginning to end and at any volume I could stand".... Hope to see more pics as you go along m00n. Good luck to ya! Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 ---------------- On 5/6/2003 9:05:23 AM HornEd wrote: Your HT is looking good, friend m00n, and I especially applaud your putting an RF-7 in the middle to get everything out of the middle a modern DVD has to offer. While my horizontalized Klipsch floor standers completely eliminate the lack of authenticity that dipoles, bipoles and tripoles (WDST) create... they also bring out the best that timbre matching, directional detail and the audio engineers intent as recorded on the DVD. With well engineered 5.1 (or above) DVD's coming available every day, I'll take listening to the real thing any day over deliberately clouding the experience by a system designed for another audio era... and designed to forgive bad room acoustics rather than celebrate good ones. ---------------- In my system, I have both WDST speakers (RS-7s) as well as direct-radiating (RF-5s) as surrounds with the ability to switch between them. From experimenting with them, I found that I prefered the RS-7s for watching regular TV and video tapes using the Dolby Prologic II in my reciever. I also found that for many of the movies, that I prefered the RS-7s, although I'll have to spend more time there (time? What is that?). However, for multi-channel music, I really prefer the RF-5s. To be honost, I'd love to have RF-7s all the way around - but there is no way in hell that I could fit 6 RF-7s in that room. I'd tried - it ain't going to happen. Now, if the RF-7s were front ported, I could put them right up against the wall - which is one reason why I was so interested in the new RB-75s. I practially have to put the RF-5s right up against the walls - the only way I could fit them in this room. ---------------- On 5/6/2003 9:05:23 AM HornEd wrote: Dawn has broken as I write this from my second story office... and the wild deer have come out of the forest to nibble their way across the lawns... yes for all the joy of Klipsch sound and DVD high definition images... the sound and site of natural things serves as a reminder of what audio video ought to be. Be well my friends. H.E. ---------------- I do envy you there. I wish I lived a bit farther out of the city and more in the country. I am so sick-and-tired of hearing these @$$holes out there with the loud car stereos and loud exhausts. I'd love to be in an area were there are no cars. However, I do live less than a mile from what may arguably be considered one of Virginia's most beautiful rivers, the Rappahannock. I love hiking up along it - get far enough back in the woods and upstream from town, and it is nothing but peace and quiet. Ahhh, bliss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Skonopa... your experience is just what I would expect. The warm fuzzy penchant of our "RollTide" curmudgeon and Audi-o Exspurt was designed to make the most out of ProLogic wimpiness... and create an avenue for those with acoustically challenged listening areas. My preference for timbre-matched monopoles is for 5.1 or above DVD movies with audio soundtracks engineered to take advantage of 5.1. There are a lot of "stuck with the mud" audio engineers that still treat 5.1 like it was "SchmooLogic." In fact our Bama-bro has exhumed some comments from one of those audio fossils a time or three. Hey, I agree that second class engineering deserves second class reproduction... I just don't like to see it in conjunction with the Crimson Tide that floats many of my former engineering staff's educational boats. And, m00n, I understand your concern... and, indeed, using RC-7's as surrounds will help. In fact, the reason that I "horizontalize" Klipsch floor standers is to give them the spread characteristics of the designated center channel. Essentially, the match of the three main speakers in the front array is far more critical than matching the front array to the rear array. Three RC-7's would do wonders for your system if you mount them about six inches higher than the top of your head when it the sweet spot listening position. However, it is essential to set up your audio environment with an SPL meter to get the most from monopoles all the way around. In my experience, WDST surrounds need to be set differently than monopole surrounds. And, yes, I own both kinds so I can test both approaches in different configurations. =HornED PS: Sorry Keith, the made me do it the toilet Roll Tide humor that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 ---------------- On 5/6/2003 2:23:06 PM HornEd wrote: However, it is essential to set up your audio environment with an SPL meter to get the most from monopoles all the way around. In my experience, WDST surrounds need to be set differently than monopole surrounds. And, yes, I own both kinds so I can test both approaches in different configurations. =HornED ---------------- Yeah, I used an SPL in my room to make sure all of the speakers are set correctly. That is definitly a nice feature of the Denon reciever that I have, in that I can hook up the two pairs of surrounds. In fact, the manual even suggested that it was a good idea to hook up two pairs of surrounds - a wide-dispersion type for most movies and TV programming and a direct/radiation monopole type for listening to music and such. I'll have to experiment some more with the newer/better movie mixes between the RF-5s and the RS-7s. I love having the ability to switch between them for the material that is appropriate for either type. My setup is not the ideal "perfect match" all the way around, but it is a good compromise for the given space and budget limits that I unfortunatly have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted May 6, 2003 Author Share Posted May 6, 2003 ---------------- On 5/6/2003 2:23:06 PM HornEd wrote: And, m00n, Three RC-7's would do wonders for your system if you mount them about six inches higher than the top of your head when it the sweet spot listening position. However, it is essential to set up your audio environment with an SPL meter to get the most from monopoles all the way around. ---------------- I am thinking about lowering my RS7s down to no more than 1 foot about the listening position. And yes, I do plan on getting the SPL meter out and adjusting them all. I will think about the RC7s. It's just hard to do because I don't want to just blindly buy them and hope for the best as I did with the belles. Would be nice to actually be able to audition them. But I have never met a dealer yet that lets you just take speakers home just because you want to check something out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 You are full of $hit Ed! Plain and simple! Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Thanks for revealing your split personality, Keith... but most find your comments more "Simple" than "Plain"... there was a time when you were quite helpful to many of us... but sitting around using your "$" to make a "hit" doesn't do any more for your Roll Tide Tech Image than copying Klipsch sales data did. Since making my Legend Theater available to private club members twice a week the system has attracted standing room only crowds at every session. What ever I am full of seems to be attractive to all who hear it. Just for fun, I set up a pair of Klipsch WDST units and A/B'd them with the three KLF-30 "horizontalized" rear array. The vote was unanimous, the WDST got a "good but ordinary" comment and the HornEd Version got a "clearly spectacular" rating. Both tests were made with the three KLF-30 front array, KLF-C7 Front Effects and 7' Twin Ultra Tower (now surrounded by a specially constructed bass corner magnification unit. The bass corner is made of 3/4" particle board with a flared top deflector and base with all connecting surfaces glued and screwed. The next step will be adding two layers of sheet rock and acoustic foam to increase the reflectivity and act as a bass trap. The next project will be a band shell to reflect the port emissions of the KLF-30 Front Array toward the sweet spot... and specially designed port deflectors to enhance the surround effect of the rear array. I've taken some photos of the special designs for the 30' "in-the-round" Klipsch Mongolian Yurt Theater and will display them as soon as this last round of modifications is done. You see Keith; I just don't speculate and spear my fellow Forum Folk... I take what they say and what I think and actually compare them... and not just on my own ear bias! But I do have to thank you "All Talk Too Keith" because without your needling I might not have carried the Legend Theater as far as I have. So, once again, thanks for your Klipsch Spear-it! The Keith Komic Relief line forms at the end of the Crimson Blush Tide. =HornEd PS: m00n, you know I appreciate all the work and thought you have put into your journey into the Klipsch experimental world. You have made great strides and have my continuing admiration. You bring a lot of candor with just a bit of dander into our lives. And when it comes to building home theaters... you have taught us that it is "all in the wrist!" More later. H.E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 I pay absolutely no attention to your critigism Ed. Your are just a blow hard and you are full of it. You have this need to incessantly brag about whatever it is you have as if it is the end all. I am not impressed with you or anything you own. On the contrary, I feel sorry for you. I feel even more sympathy for everyone here that has to put up with your bragging while you ridicule or critigise their efforts. Get a life old man. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted May 7, 2003 Author Share Posted May 7, 2003 Whooooooo.... Public relations hat goes on and I step up on my soapbox I am going to interrupt and see about changing the subject before it gets too heated. CMon you too, I want the both of you to and make up. Ok, taking off my public relations hat now and stepping down off my soapbox. Phew, that took a lot out of me, I better go have a . Ok now to why I came here in the first place. I got my seats today... They are as the guy said, in very good physical shape but do need a through cleaning. There is only 1 seat I am really worried about...... GUM! There is one seat with gum stuck in the fabric. Don't suspect that will be coming out. Also, some of the metal has rusted. I suspect many-O pop has been spilt on these. I think what I am going to do is this. Get the cloth cleaned up as best as possible between our carpet cleaner which luckly has a hose attatchment, and have my dad bring over his pressure washer so I can wash the legs and backs of the chairs without getting the cloth too wet. Eventually we are just going to recover them. So, I am actually not toooooooo worried about them, but until we get the done, I do want them to look nice. They sit really low to the floor which I like a lot. Will be easy for the tator tots to get in and out of. Not to mention will make it more comfy when stretching out the legs. Each chair has 2 cup holders. That's a very good thing. I won't be missing much of the movie this way. One beer in each cup holder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 ---------------- On 5/7/2003 9:29:10 PM m00n wrote: I got my seats today... They are as the guy said, in very good physical shape but do need a through cleaning. There is only 1 seat I am really worried about...... GUM! There is one seat with gum stuck in the fabric. Don't suspect that will be coming out. Also, some of the metal has rusted. I suspect many-O pop has been spilt on these. ---------------- One easy way to get gum out? Take one of those compressed air canisters like the ones you get at computer shops or Rat Shack for blowing dirt out of keyboards and stuff. Hold it upside-down and spray the gum. It'll freeze it like a turd in the middle of a January blizzard. You may be able to than break it up and brush it away. I don't know if it'll work or not, but it is worth a try. As for the metel - time to get the sandpaper and Rust-Oleum out. I have a metal and glass table (metal frame - glass top) that had rust on it - I just sanded it to the bare metel and then primed and painted it with Rust-Oleum - good as new! I paid all of $3 to get a new glass top from one of the local glass supply houses (the old one had a big crack in it). I salavaged it out of the dumpster when I was living in the apartments (no need to let a perfectly good table like that go to waste ). Regardless of what Keith may say, but I sure as hell would like to hear the setup that HornED has put together. If I find myself in the 'Frisco' area, I would like to look him up and see if he'll let me listen to his setup(s). It may or may not be the "be all - end all" of HT setups, but it does seem that HornED is doing all the right things to get a truly remarkable sound and experience out of it. I read all the same documents and white-papers that he said he read and I tend to agree with his general philosophies. It sure is fun to see what crazy thing he may come up with next, though. After all, isn't that the purpose of this hobby is to get the best sound out of your gear and the purpose of this forum to share the experiences gained while trying to get that perfect sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted May 8, 2003 Author Share Posted May 8, 2003 No sandpaper... Too much work man! Gonna get a plug in drill and a wire wheel. I really wish I knew someone with a sand blaster. Make quick work out of this. Can you paint plastic? I have never tried but I want to paint the plastic on the arm rests. I have not looked into it yet but I would have to image that there would be a spray paint for plastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgie Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 Yes!!!! I think it is Krylon that has come out with a new spray paint made for plastic. Not supposed to peel off like regular paint will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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