fire pinch Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Hi all!!!! I know that this is maybe not appropriate to post things about DIY subwoofers here but I saw someone posting about his tempest here! So I had the idea to let others who are septical about DIY subwoofers know about how this thing is . Firstly, let me tell you that this thing pounds a lot! I have an Hsu VTF-3 too in my room and the Tempest eat it!!! Most likely in power. I have a quite a huge house, Im upstair and I can feel the wooden floor shaking downstairs easily!!! Beleive me, this is one of an agressive sub when wanted! As for the wall shaking ability, so many people say that their subs shake anything blahblah so this is not very informative... those people could be in a small house so this is not a good indication of how much their sub are capable of. I didnt use my SPL meter yet, but knowing how much my VTF-3 could hit, Im sure that Im above 115 dB even 120. Now, you will ask me, but how DEEP is it able to go?? As deep as the floor permit It doesnt have any problem to go down to 16 Hz with authority. For the bass quality, I still find that the VTF-3 hold very well beside it but still, it cant goes deep with the ease of the Tempest. The most big difference Ive heard with the Tempest is the amount of harmonic distortion, almost absent! This woofer sounds so CLEAN , I was totally amazed at first when I heard it. I was really affraid for the quality because I thought that a 15 inchers would be less good for bass tightness (oh well, but the RSW-15 sure sounds good), especially at this price!! The bass is VERY (I will not use a better term because I will use it when I will make a Tumult subwoofer and I know it would be even better )tight, specially with music with a lot of drum. For "quiet" and rock music, guitar and bass strings sound like a pure delice, very warm and accurate sound. Moreover, the Tempest just dissapear, it incredibly integrate with my floorstanders and when you listen to music, you just dont know where the bass is coming from if you close your eyes. For more "moving" music such as dance, disco, rap, the subwoofer hit you hard in the chest, it has a very good mid-bass presence. And this mid-bass presence helps for reproducing an easy transition and integration with my floorstanders. A PURE BARGAIN for the money, I cant beleive how much quality bass is pounded with ease at this price tag, this thing is 850CAN all assembled and ready to fire! I dont know of any subs below 2000 which sounds better for the moment. For the details of how it is built... I took at look at the Adire Audio plans and I made my Tempest based on these. I chose the SBB4 design because I wanted the most possible SPL of my sub but and at the same time, good acuracy and very deep bass. The driver is housed into a 194 liters box tuned to 18 Hz NOT 18.8 or near 19 Hz with more than 64 ounces of Polyfill. Acutally, it is tuned a little bit lower than the reference design. I tested the -3dB point with accurate test tones and it is more tuned to 18 Hz than near 19 (18.8). And I did that because I wanted it tuned lower. By default, an SBB4 tempest has a little boost in the mid-bass region so by putting pore polyfill into the enclosure, I find myself with a lower tuned subwoofer and the mid-bass is a bit reduced for a flatter FR curve. The woofer isnt bottom mounted, I made a MDF enclosure, the front baffle is double walled with 3/4 inchs of MDF and the driver is countersunk into the enclosure for a better looking. I chose the Adire DT300 amp over the AVA250 for a bit more omph and the driver is definitvely able to take it. Moreover, becasue this is a class D amp, it stays very cool under operation, not any heatsink mounted on the back plate. Actally, when I touch it, it is just warm. There is two 3 inches flared ports and listen very carefully, because I wondered what kind of port to choose at first: 3 inches flared ports is ENOUGH for this sub beleive me, Im the kind of person who hate a LOT port noise. I thought it was kinda under-ported but because it is tuned low, most of the music you hear doesnt have so much low bass information. So... I didnt watch any movie yet to know how it performs in movies and I didnt tested objectively the subwoofer but this will come soon! I want that it pass its break in period before. Unfortunately, for the moment, I just have one DVD and this is Tombraider for those who are fanatic about Angelllllllina Jolie !!! Im most likely a music listener so its why I dont have ahemm... SO much DVDs If you have any questions, feel free to ask me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Congrats on the new DIY sub. It was a sad day when I sold my SVS CS Ultra, but it was done for a good cause(DIY). I'm glad to hear you're pleased. I'm deciding on what kind of sub for my parents HT, with their budget of $300-$400 and a room that's close to 20,000 cu ft(not a typo), I figure I'll build something for them. The Tempest is at the top of my list right now, unless I can find a used Maelstrom. How big is your room? ---------------- Acutally, it is tuned a little bit lower than the reference design. I tested the -3dB point with accurate test tones and it is more tuned to 18 Hz than near 19 (18.8). And I did that because I wanted it tuned lower. ---------------- Just so you know, the -3dB point does not have to tuning frequency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted July 25, 2003 Author Share Posted July 25, 2003 Im in a small room , 1500 cubic ft, this is my bedroom Well, I know that the -3dB isnt the tuning frequency but I assume that it is now tuned to 18 Hz. With 64 ounces of polyfill, I saw with some test tones that I were between 18.6 and 18.8 Hz, the internal net volume is a tad bigger than 194 liters due to the heavy internal braces. But since then, I added some polyfill until the bass quality please me and also to tame the little mid bass boost implicated with that design. By the way, for that HUGE room you should look for the Stryke AV-15 instead of a Mealstrom if this isnt too asked for the money. It would be more powerfull for filling that room and you could place it in a smaller box... IMHO. I didnt choose that woofer personally because Im canadian and with all those taxes and duties, the Tempest represents a better bang for your buck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fivelitermustang Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 I'm running Tempest in 3CF box sealed with an AVA250 but I'm going to put it in a 8CF box tuned to 18Hz soon. I think part of the problem why it isn't getting as much oomph as it should is that it is running off a SoundBlaster Live! Platinum 5.1 soundcard. It only cost me $600CAD to build and I can easily build a different box with the same truck bedliner finish for about $50CAD. I still need to find a way to sound deaden my room. The various frequencies set my drywall to vibrate rapidly adding nasty rattling which distracts from the music. When I am playing my sub I got pillows and other stuff just layed beside the wall pushing it down to stop the vibrations. All my pictures have little sponges attached to the corners. LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted July 25, 2003 Author Share Posted July 25, 2003 Nice sub Mustang!! What king of finish did you use for your Tempest exactly? You mentionned a truck paint something... lol!! I think that youre gonna be shocked when you will listen to your 8 cubic ft box tempest, this is so unbeleivable how much it can shake my whole body sit on my chair!!! You can still make another bigger sealed box and you would see a difference. Do you have a parametric EQ or an EQ build-in the amp? The most you will get out ouf your future 8 cubic ft enclosure if you choose to make it, is the deep low bass below 30 Hz. Im upstairs and everything rattle in the kitchen downstairs and the sub isnt even fired up at the maximum, it is passing its brake in moment. Those things shaked when I played my HSU VTF-3 disc demo, this is all about bass below 25 Hz I dont doubt that you certainly feel a lot of mid-bass kick with that type of enclosure when you play techno or disco style songs By the way, Im using too a Sound Blaster in my computer but this isnt a Live, this is an Audigy... soon to be upgraded to an Audigy 2. I dont think that your soundcard is the problem for the lack of omphhh this is most likely due to your small sealed enclosure. You will for sure get defitively more ooomph with an enclosure like mine, about 7.25 cubic ft with a bit more than 64 ounces (about 80) of polyfill. I suggest you to make your enclosure a little bit smaller than 8 cubic ft, most likely line mine and to put more polyfill because even with that size, my sub is HUGE, defitively a monster for my room. Still, for sure you will get better sound with a Sound Blaster Audigy, buy the 2 and not the 1 because there is not a big difference in price anyway now. Specially if you have very good floorstanders, you must change that sound card to get the most of what you play. Also, bad encoded mp3 isnt very good too, if you find that you hear something that you dont like from your sub. Oh... and I payed a bit more than you because of the flared ports, and I bought some other stuff also that I didnt have for building the sub :S But still, at this price point, the Tempest is one of a monster subwoofer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Delaflor Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Congrats on your sub, welcome to the club! I agree with all what you say, but I need to add that the secret is to correctly setup your sub. Of course a Tempest can be very musical "despite" being a 15inch driver! again its all making a good sub and then setup it correctly. I would be interested in seeing some numbers comparing the output at certain frequencies against the VTF3, just for the record, as Im aware that the Tempest will give you more bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted July 25, 2003 Author Share Posted July 25, 2003 Manuel Delaflor, Dont worry I will post my numbers soon, when the sub will be enough broken in. However I can give you some clue for the moment! I can reach the same level of output than the VTF-3 when it is driven at the maximum when the Tempest feels in a comfortable level. In my room, the VTF-3 was very powerfull, beeing around 115 dB during disco bar or techno type of music. At 20 Hz, it could hit 108 dB if I remember, this is when I tested it with test tones. And that was when the door was closed, when I open it, I gain 2 dB! I deleted all the text file where I put my VTF-3 numbers, this is because I knew that I would test it again, when the Tempest would be done. For a direct comparasion, all I can say is this: I runned the Tempest and the Hsu side by side yesterday, that was not in the best location, in the center of the bedroom quite away from the back wall. Im loosing a lot of output at the listening position when the subs are there almost 5 to 6 dB!!! Certainly because there is the bass doesnt travel correctly tru the entire room. I fired up "Eminem - Sign for the Moment" because this song pounds very deep bass notes. This song isnt my preferate at all, I listen to any type of music, but this one interested me for a short test. The Tempest could always hit 111 dB while the VTF-3 hit 108 dB in the lowest bass note... you know when the bass goes like taaaaaaaaaaaa, ta taaaaaaa, ta -> taaaaaaaa <-(THIS taa) the last one. With the other taaaa the Tempest had an advantage of 2 dB sometimes the SPL meter indicated 3 dB (maybe there was a 2.9 dB who knows lol) In that time, the Hsu was quite maxed out while the Tempest wasnt again at its maximum, quite interesting!! By the way, do you want all that I test my Tempest at the maximum volume at each test tones? Exemple, at 20 Hz, the maximum the tempest can go, at 25 Hz, etc... because If I do it that way, this will not indicate to you how flat is the bass in my room. I can do a test where I put the volume at a certain point and I dont touch it when I listen to different test tones. Its all like you want... Oh!! And I forgot to tell you that the Hsu VTF-3 still sounds amazing and I just smiled when I compared it shortly against the tempest... this little beast still hold well against it considering how big it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fivelitermustang Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 I finished the box by filling in the countersinked screws with wood filler. Then I took some sandpaper and rounded off the edges and all that. Then I took an oscillating finishing sander with 80 grit sandpaper and ran it over the surface to make it extremely smooth. I then took and sprayed the box with generic grey primer. Then I sanded it again so that it was smooth again. I then bought some MotoMaster Aerosol Can Truck Bedliner... I don't know what you got in the US I think Duplicolor makes some of that. That stuff is like $9CAD/$7US. You hold the bedliner 2ft away and lightly mist the box till it turns black. The plastic is black with a hard durable non-stretching plastic texture that is literally like a skin around the box that is impermeable to airleaks and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 ---------------- On 7/25/2003 7:56:30 PM fire pinch wrote: Im in a small room , 1500 cubic ft, this is my bedroom Well, I know that the -3dB isnt the tuning frequency but I assume that it is now tuned to 18 Hz. With 64 ounces of polyfill, I saw with some test tones that I were between 18.6 and 18.8 Hz, the internal net volume is a tad bigger than 194 liters due to the heavy internal braces. But since then, I added some polyfill until the bass quality please me and also to tame the little mid bass boost implicated with that design. By the way, for that HUGE room you should look for the Stryke AV-15 instead of a Mealstrom if this isnt too asked for the money. It would be more powerfull for filling that room and you could place it in a smaller box... IMHO. I didnt choose that woofer personally because Im canadian and with all those taxes and duties, the Tempest represents a better bang for your buck. ---------------- I looked at the AV-15, I'm waiting on two for my 1500 cu ft bedroom. Those enclosures are almost done. Since my parent's budget is limited, I'll probably power it with a 250w plate amp. Due to this I'm trying to find something with high sensitivity. The Tempest(according to WINISD) will out edge an AV-15 until you reach it's excursion limits. I'm really trying to shoot for a Maelstrom since it's super sensitive. One big plus is there's a large nook that I can fit sub in so it will allow me a sub around 10-11 cu ft so I'm not worried about size. If you're going to test the frequency response of your subs, I'd be interested in seeing them if it's done with both subs in the same location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 Now that I've started building my AV15 (6ft3 20Hz tune) sub, I can say with certainty that your 8ft3 box is huge... Going big is an easy/inexpensive way to get good bass extension, but even 6ft3 is borderline in WAF for me. Its reassuring to hear that it beats out your HSU... you never know with DIY as you can't test it before you build it. I'm still waiting for my preorder driver as the last word is the aluminium cones are backordered... but I've decided to start building it now so I won't rush it later when I have the driver. The cabinet is made in 3/4" Russian birch plywood, and will look like a cross between the Aeriel SW12 and a Heritage Decorator Klipsch. The picture below is of a "dry fitting" of the parts without the bottom panel (it's sitting on it's back, bottom facing the camera). There remains quite a few pieces of blocking to install, but it gives a good idea of how it goes together. I decided to make the bottom removable, so that I'll be able to tune the port (cut it to length) with test tones. As usual, I too would like to se your numbers "pincette a feu" and given the choice between maximum or room response, I'd go with room response. Later... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 ---------------- On 7/25/2003 11:56:35 PM fabulousfrankie wrote: Since my parent's budget is limited, I'll probably power it with a 250w plate amp. Due to this I'm trying to find something with high sensitivity. ---------------- That was my thinking originally too, but much more powerful used pro amps are pretty inexpensive especially when compared to a new plate amp. I picked up a new JBL/QSC 700W bridged in mono for less than 150$ at the Harmon tent sale. Just a thought... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted July 26, 2003 Author Share Posted July 26, 2003 Hi formica, Good to hear some news from you You certainly noticed that I didnt buy a Tumult. I thought alot about this and I felt that I would have to go with the Tempest first and after, to sell it and to build a sub with the Tumult woofer I just hope that my tempest will be sold fastly when I will place the add on the internet but I begin to doubt it due to its "hugeness"!!! But if it has a nice finish, and considering its HUGE value for the performance you get, I think that I will be even able to sell for a tad more than what I paid. Actually, in stores, this is hard to find a subwoofer which perform this well under 2000 (even more) canadians. Boys & girls, the numbers will come out soon for the Tempest but I must let it play again a few days before driving it hard. I also might considere to apply a fisnish on it before testing it so you will see the numbers and some pictures Still for the instance, the sub looks very good even without any finishes but grrrr you will have to wait Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted July 26, 2003 Author Share Posted July 26, 2003 Ahh you got me guys, I just uploaded a pic of how the box look without the woofer. Not so beautifull actually but the finish will come! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Delaflor Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 Fire Pinch Thanks for the offer. I was thinking in calibrate both subs to, say, 100Hz so both read 100dB. Then go down in 1/3 or 1/6 interval to see how each behave, right down to 16Hz. Both need to be properly calibrated and in the same place to do this fairly Oh, do not try to test your Tempest maxed out! either your house or your head will not allow it! . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 Pincette a Feu, Good job,more sub bass is always a good thing.I am repainting and rewiring my two audio rooms now(a week long job,on vaccation now)When I am done two new subs will join my sub bass army,the main Pea See now has FOUR subs!!!. Long live LA GROSSE BASSE CALINE DE BINE Keep piling up the subs BTW for anyone interested in a great inexpensive sub for music and HT I recommend the new Polk Audio 303,404 and 505.All three feature quality amplification and very long throw(a la Sunfire)woofers.Cabinet quality is always Polk Audio solid and the trio is slot loaded.The 303 uses an 8" woofer,the 404 a 10" and the 505 a 12". Someting tells me these Polk subs will compete very well with the upcoming Klipsch RW lineup(same driver size,similar cabinet size and amp specs being also close). Anyway all this to tell you people I purchased a PolkAudio 404 and am very impressed(for the first time by a PolkAudio sub!)by the BIG price/performance ratio.The little 404 compares well with a Carver Knight Shadow!And I paid under $300 for the PSW404!! PolkAudio new subs are dirt cheap and perform damn well. That is it for now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Delaflor Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 Excuse me... a.... a.... ... polk??? a good subwoofer for theears? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 El Presidente Delafor, Yes El Presidente the new PolkAudio 404 and 505 are dand good for the price.Notice the ...for the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpg Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 Ahh... for the price. I, too, was thrown by Ear liking something a normal perosn could afford. Maybe in a few hours, my sonosub will finally be up and running... (or it won't be running... I have no amp but it will be finished) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted July 26, 2003 Author Share Posted July 26, 2003 L'oreille, "Keep piling up the subs" LOL... no I dont think that Im gonna keep piling all the sub I will do... I think about selling my VTF-3 even if it will make me cry because this is a damn good subwoofer, actually this is the first TRUE subwoofer (can go as deep as my ears permit) that I had the chance to have. The Tempest is truely enough for me and If I make a Tumult, this will be just for the fun of making it. I will have better sound quality but hell... who think that Im gonna crank it all the way up! I hited the 120 dB mark with the Tempest and that was my goal, I dont need much more and that 120 dB I dont listen to it unless to impress people who come to listen to it! Otherwise, I listen most of the time to moderate level and the power ability of the Tempest, I use it most of the time like a power reserve (I know it can go louder, just to feel safer) And Im sure l'oreille that even with your armée of the big bang of the universe, Im sure that you just have all of these just because you are a bass freak but you certainly dont listen all the time to 120 dB... I guess that one day you choose to play your music on a Sunfire Sig or the other day, on your Velo 18 hehe!!! Oh well, your house foundation wouldnt resist one second with all your freaking subs!! Jme mets à ta place et ca doit etre le fun en caline de bine I know, I would do the same thing me too if I would have my own house... I would keep all the sub I make or buy, just for the hell of it! Today is again the day when I play all kind of songs to let heat this big monster, the numbers will come probably next week. I tried to push it harder today and I was shocked... it didnt show any sign of distress again, but Im happy because this is what I want afterall I will drive it higher during the next week... anyways, I dont want to piss the neighboor everyday, so I try to be quiet sometimes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted July 26, 2003 Author Share Posted July 26, 2003 Oh and second thing l'orelle, How does compare the Polk Audio subs you are talking about against others? Ex... against what kind of SVS, Velo, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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