fire pinch Posted August 19, 2003 Author Share Posted August 19, 2003 Very true... When I will have all the results, I will post these in a new topic. It will be named like "Tempest DIY sub vs Hsu VTF-3 SPL results". But I dont think that I will be able to test them before the end of this month Until this big piece of furniture stay on that room corner, this will be hard to place the subwoofers at the same place. Im thinking justly how to move away this piece of furniture and to find another place for it (which is very difficult task for the moment) ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasN00b Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 aww poor fire. take some slick blankets (moving blankets if you have any) lift up one side of the object, slide the blanket under. repeat for the other side. then veeeeerrrryyyy gently pull at the blankets and see if it will slide. you can also do this with dollies if you have acess to them, and that works way better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted August 19, 2003 Author Share Posted August 19, 2003 lol Jas! But this is not really the problem. The problem is more WHERE im gonna place it in the house. I dont have a good spot for the moment for that big thing. Plus, I have some clothing in there and some other important stuff. I will have to find another place to put all those objects and Im thinking about it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasN00b Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 too much furniture? burn it! subs are more important Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted August 19, 2003 Author Share Posted August 19, 2003 LOL!! No, the sub is sit on just ONE, but it is very big. Just to give you an idea, the sub IS big and it is on it! But I will try to find a solution before the end of this week Actualy, I have even the idea of making another sub. The woofer will be probably the Tumult or simply the Stryke AV-12 or AV-15. Im thinking about it now even if I have the Tempest sub. By the way, I even thought about that before building the Tempest subwoofer (I had the Tumult in mind) but I was telling myself: "Why not going with the Tempest first to see how it performs and after, I will just have to sell it!" I would like just to have a smaller enclosure... no more than 5 cubic ft, this will be really the MAXIMUM acceptable volume for me. The AV-12 sub would be under 5 cubic ft but for the Tumult and AV-15, this will be more near 5 cubic ft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted August 27, 2003 Author Share Posted August 27, 2003 Just wanted to indicate that ive done the FR curve test of my Tempest subwoofer. You will see some numbers really soon That was not a performance test but rather a quality test, to measure how the Tempest is in my room at a certain volume -> its FR curve in my 1500 cubic ft room. Manuel Delaflor, Hourrra! The results are coming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted August 27, 2003 Author Share Posted August 27, 2003 So finally, these results Manuel Delaflor! You waited for them, you wanted to see them and you get them! -So this is for a 1500 cubic ft room. -Numbers taken from the listening position (about 3 meters away) -The low pass and high pass crossover were set at 80 Hz (18 dB/octave slope). -The SPL numbers are the right one (corrected by the Radio Shack SPL compensation chart) -I did 3 tests instead of just one because I was curious to know what the Tempest would do if I block 1 or 2 of its 2 flared ports... With two ports opened, it is tuned to 18.8 Hz. With one opened, it is tuned nearer 14 Hz (I didnt calculate it too much so feel free to correct me). 194L net volume sealed (with Polyfill): 2 ports blocked 80 Hz 85.5 71 Hz 86.5 63 Hz 90.5 56 Hz 93.5 50 Hz 97.5 45 Hz 102 40 Hz 101.5 36 Hz 102.5 31.5 Hz 100 28 Hz 98 25 Hz 99 22 Hz 98.5 20 Hz 95.5 18 Hz 95 16 Hz 95.5 194L net volume Ported (with Polyfill): 1 port blocked 80 Hz 85.5 71 Hz 86.5 63 Hz 90.5 56 Hz 93.5 50 Hz 98.5 45 Hz 102.5 40 Hz 102.5 36 Hz 103.5 31.5 Hz 101.5 28 Hz 101 25 Hz 100.5 22 Hz 102.5 20 Hz 100.5 18 Hz 99 16 Hz 100.5 194L net volume Ported (With polyfill)/(No mod) 80 Hz 85.5 71 Hz 86.5 63 Hz 90.5 56 Hz 94.5 50 Hz 99.5 45 Hz 104 40 Hz 104.5 36 Hz 105.5 31.5 Hz 103 28 Hz 103 25 Hz 104 22 Hz 104.5 20 Hz 103.5 18 Hz 102 16 Hz 101.5 Looks like the Tempest FR curve is flatter when one port is blocked!!! I would like to talk more about those numbers but I dont have the time right now, I must absolutely go to the bed! P.S.: These numbers dont show the Tempest maximum SPL capability, it just shows its power at different frequencies at the SAME volume (FR curve test). Just wanted to clarify Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Delaflor Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Fire Pinch!! WOW those are good numbers indeed! My Tempest is 214L with just one big (6 inch) port. The results look pretty similar. I once did distortion tests, and I got (Im from memory here) about 110dB at 18Hz with less than 10% THD. Not bad... huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Those are REALLY nice figures... as your in-room response is about as flat as you'll get it! I'm particularly impressed with the un-modified sub... which extends well into the subsonic. Is this with or without the big piece of furniture? Bed? Did you have a chance to meter the FR curve for your HSU in the same spot? So many questions... so little time... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Whoa Nelly, any sub that can put out over 100db(even w/out regards to distortion) is a monster. If you have Excel, download the file below and plug the numbers from the meter into the RAW SPL column and it will graph your response(it has the RS compensation chart built in). It just makes it alot easier to see what's going on. http://members.cox.net/frankcarter/SVS%20CS%20Ultra%20Frequency%20Response%20tests.xls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted August 28, 2003 Author Share Posted August 28, 2003 Formica, So much questions but I have the time now to answer them This was with the big piece of furniture... I really didnt find another place yet for it. But for a performance aspect, I know that by placing that piece of **** !!! anywhere else, I would gain 1 or 2 more dBs. My room is the bedroom so the bed was there too I had a chance to test the Hsu VTF-3 in the EXACTLY same place, but this time is like 6 months ago so I dont remember too much how the FR curve looked like BUT... I can tell you that it looked really nice, if not almost the same than the one right now but with less omph in the subsonic region. Less omph too with other frequencies, sure, but specially in the subsonic bass region. The VTF-3 with both ports opened (tuned to 25 Hz) is a damn good performer in the >30 Hz region (I should even say below that, sorry) and I think that this is because of the higher tuning point and that was with the new woofer. When I first bought the VTF-3, I wasnt satisfied at 100% for the price I paid, you certainly remember how much high the exchange rate was last year before the Iraq war. Buying a subwoofer from USA was quite expensive for us. But some months after my purchase, I talked about my feelings to dr. Hsu. He gave me a new woofer and he upgraded my amps for free. The woofer was a bit different than the one I had first, new dust cap, and seemed to handle high excursion just a bit better. The amp upgrade... it was made for best sustained power conditions, so it could deliver more watts continuously. All those upgrades that Hsu offered, it was not public. This was offered discreetly (pure stealth ). I think that some people mentionned that amp upgrade in a particular forum. But dr. Hsu didnt tell those changements on his website. However, all these changements can be seen and heard in his present VTF-3s, dont worry about it even if you dont know. Hes the kind of person who keeps its secrets... well if we compare him to the SVS guys. SVS let us know when some upgrades are offered to their products. Just think about the CSi improved driver. And this is good! So if some people arent ready to pay for another better sub, they can still upgrade their CS woofer the the CSi woofer and they just pay a little cost for this. I dont know if I hallucinated but Ive tested like few more dBs with those new free upgrades. This well worth it Manuel, 110 dB at 18 Hz with less than 10% THD!!! Woaw... I knew that I could hit like 113 dB at 18 Hz but that was really the maximum or near it. But if you say 110 dB at 18 Hz without passing above 10% of THD, this will be a good selling point when I will sell it. Sell it I said? Yes! Maybe not before the end of this year but I want so bad to make a Tumult subwoofer, this is a thought I had since the beginning. But I was telling myself: why not going with the Tempest first, a legendary woofer, to see how good it is. So I will just have to sell it later and to go with the Tumult after! For sure, I have enough bass for my needs with this very nice Tempest sub! But, ahhh... yea for the hell of it, the Tumult is a need! The enclosure would be smaller too, something I would like a lot. And when I think Tumult, I dont think for now about its bass quantity, but more its bass quality with its famous XBL2 motor technology. However, for SURE, I will never forget that Tempest bass, never. Really, its for now the first Ive heard that offer true quality bass for the price... even without considering the price tag, this is really a hella good subwoofer! Frankie, I totaly agree with you... For those who only know about big slam power and mid-bass punch, 100 dB below 20 Hz would be for sure a new experience for them I have Excel and I downloaded your file but what do you want me to do with it exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Delaflor Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Yes, the numbers were really impressive. Even Tom (from SVS) told me they were extremely good (for a DIY proyect). When I was researching to build my sub I was tempted also by the Tumult, but after listening for just a few days my Tempest I have decided that I don't need more bass, I feel sick if I really push it right now! Maybe if the WAF were a problem (she doesn't tell me anything because the room I use for my two channel hoby is "for my stuff") or if I didn't have the space to put it (it is BIG) I would consider a Tumult, but for now, Im a happy camper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOOMIS914 Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Firepinch- Welcome to the DIY Tempest builders club. I too researched many retail and internet(SVS) subs before I decided I would build the Tempest Beast. I built the Tempest 214L Adire Alignment and am using the PE 250Watt plate amp. I initially was very skeptical about performance expectations but when I turned this thing on and ran test tones through it I thought the house was going to come down. Around 16-18Hz, in excess of 120dB there is no real noise/bass to speak of..... All I can say is that the pictures, ductwork and everything not fastened down begins to shake violently. It literally makes your gut turn and feels like your heart gets off pace. Just awesome! My wife and kids were actually scared when I did this test as they were upstairs and thought something was blowing up or I had electrocuted myself in the launch process. There are a few scenes that really bring this beast to life that I use to demo for friends and they are ToyStory II opening scene when Buzz's rocket booster kicks in and U-571, the "depth-charged" scene. In addition, I submitted my pics to Adire Audio and you can view my sub in their hall of fame for Tempest Applications. Go to www.adireaudio.com. Best $450 I EVER spent. This sub plays so low and loud and hits so hard that I can't imagine what the new Tumult will do or what Mistrass' sub will pump out. Tempest can be summed up in these words: Sub-sonic bliss. Enjoy, Brett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 ---------------- Whoa Nelly, any sub that can put out over 100db(even w/out regards to distortion) is a monster. ---------------- I was trying to say any sub that can put out over 100dB at 16hz is a monster. I forgot to put in the 16hz part. ---------------- Frankie, I totaly agree with you... For those who only know about big slam power and mid-bass punch, 100 dB below 20 Hz would be for sure a new experience for them I have Excel and I downloaded your file but what do you want me to do with it exactly? ---------------- To make a graph of your response, just enter the number straight from the RS SPL meter(don't add the compensation factor) into the "RAW SPL" column. When it graphs it, the RS meter's compensation chart is already worked in. You can graph two at a time. It's just much easier to see what's going on when you have a graph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted August 29, 2003 Author Share Posted August 29, 2003 ---------------- On 8/29/2003 12:01:41 AM BLOOMIS914 wrote: Around 16-18Hz, in excess of 120dB there is no real noise/bass to speak of..... ---------------- How did you get even near 120 dB around 16-18 Hz??? I wish I could do this with my Tempest but I can't! What is the size of the room? I simply can't have this kind of huge power and Im in my small room -> 1500 cubic ft. If you say true, then I have some problems. If you compare your design to mine, we should be really close each others around 16-18 Hz (a fraction of a dB) and notice that I have a 300W amp instead of a 250W. So the only factor I see is my sub placement!!! Would it be placed this badly? Yesterday, I recorded 3 more dBs when I moved in the back-right corner of my room. Actualy, Im sit between the right and the left corner of my room, along the back wall. So I guess that I should try another location for my Tempest if I saw that I can gain 3 dBs at that place Still, even if I add 3 more dBs to my maximum SPL results, I cant touch 120 dB around 16 and 18 Hz!!! omg... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 There is no way a single Adire Tempest woofer no matter what can produce 120dB in the 16-18Hz range.Measured in room and at listening position. A single Tumult will not generate 120dB at 16Hz in room,unless the room is very small and amp used well over 250W.And all know the Tumult moves much more air then any Adire Tempest(even the Super Duper Edition). 120dB at 16Hz...or even 20Hz...YEAH RIGHT.Measured inside the cabinet maybe. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 ---------------- On 8/29/2003 3:54:15 PM fire pinch wrote: So the only factor I see is my sub placement!!! Would it be placed this badly? ---------------- I have to agree I'm surprised by 120db for a single vented tempest... but my guess of what is happening is poor placement rather than good... or a very small room. What i mean is you can definitely get quite a SPL increase (at a fixed frequency) if you excite a room node... and 10db wouldn't be exaggerated. The problem is that a peak is usually always associated with a null of almost the same size half an octave up. To really understand what is happening you have to do detailed FR tests... and my instinct would be to aim for the flattest response possible. You loose a couple of db's but gain in flat, fast, and fine bass (FFF bass... . My room and current placement leave quite a bit to be desired... just hope I can get as nice a curve as you when I'm done with my AV15. Later.. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted August 29, 2003 Author Share Posted August 29, 2003 L'oreille, Well at 20 Hz as indicated previously in my tread, I can get 115 dB at the listening position and in a room corner, I have a 3 dB boost in most frequencies. This is a place I could sit in but it would be too near the door. So I guess that Im near the 120 at 20 Hz, even if its unbeleivable But sure, I cant get 120 dB at 16 Hz LOL, only in my dreams! I will try to figure out another sub placement to get that 3 dB boost at the listening position. Dunno if this will be possible, maybe not, figure Some may underestimate really much that woofer because of its price... a wrong thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 I dont underestimate the Tempest,its a good quality woofer with 2.5L swept volume its a potent woofer for sure. Me I would not buy this driver because of the weak looking stapled steel basket and small magnetic structure(even looks count!) The Tumult on the other hand is a monster with over 5L of swept volume and a cast basket with a gigantic motor structure it whips the dB's out of the petite and fragile Tempest.May not be as easy to extract all the performance out of a Tumult but the end result must be worth the effort. The new Sadhara 12" monster woofer is yet another prime example of greatness,and at $500 CAN its priced for the high end subs. Too many choices too little time and space,I am tempted bad to order a pair of Sadhara and Tumult woofers.And get the tools out.Its almost too tempting The sadhara looks like an improved Sunfire Signature woofer on steroids.And the Sunfire(TC SOunds?)woofers have extreme travel and look like tanks. Remember a great woofer must have a huge linear,huge motor structure and ....LOOK LIKE A TANK. As for the 120dB figures,after testing my sealed HGS18 in my smaller room full tilt I say its very possible,the HGS18 belts 125dB at listeining position @ 32Hz,from then on down it drops fast(damn sealed sub).Needless to say prolonged exposure to this level is dangerous for your hearing. I am looking forward to get in the DIY again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 ---------------- On 8/30/2003 8:59:21 AM TheEAR wrote: I am looking forward to get in the DIY again. ---------------- Now you're talkin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.