No Disc Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 I understand Jeff Lessard really likes these vintage ugly ducklings, but what is the sound like compared to SET? Will most current pre-amps drive them? How many watts? Note: I need a decent pair of standby amps for when I want to listen to music at higher than nomal levels. It seems with some powerful symphony type of music the Wrights can not hold up at the level I'm playing at. I'm wondering if the Quad II would fit the bill. - Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Ugly dicklings?!? SHAME ON YOU! I have always thought vintage Quad gear to be VERY handsome indeed. How do they sound? Very British indeed--"natural" sounding, coherent, perhaps a tad "brittle," but really VERY nice Amps. The use GEC KT-66 outputs which will set you back $600/quad NOS these days--so make sue the pair you buy has them! They are notorious for frying transformers and replacements are MUCHO expensive. A nice pair well-restored will set you back $1500 easy. For that kind of money, I'd suggest a pair of PERFECT McIntosh MC-30s, which are far more reliable and sound better (IMHO). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Most here I'm sure have never heard these mono-blocks, I sure know I haven't -- though I've read some about them. All Class A design using KT-66s wired in triode for a whopping 15 wpc. Still very much in demand, hard to find, and relatively expensive if you do run across a pair. Also usually need some work since they are pushing 50 years old. I have to question the real life difference between 4 watts and 15 watts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted August 17, 2003 Author Share Posted August 17, 2003 Perhaps what is need is a PP 2A3 which can handle more load than a SET 2A3. If I don't have do give up much or the mid-range magic I might go that route. - tb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted August 17, 2003 Author Share Posted August 17, 2003 Allan - I said ducklings... Heh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 "If I don't have do give up...the mid-range magic.." It's O.K., adding real bass and good transient attack always puts the mid-range where it belongs. Namely, in balance with the rest of the music. Seriously though, why not go for a modern piece from AE or ASL? You could probably get by with 15 watts since what you proabably really need is just some additional headroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted August 17, 2003 Author Share Posted August 17, 2003 Dean - Sure those are possiblites. I looked at the six pac. Not sure I want to go that route. I don't think I will purchase a ASL product. I think there QC is not up to snuff IMHO. I might bring home for home trial a Cary 300SE to see how I like the 300B sound. Those are about 15 or 20 watts and should give me the headroom I want. - tb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Well if it was me I would Opt for a great PP design to have around your abode. Why have 2 SET designs (300B) or 2 2A3 designs (2A3 PP). Why didn't you just keep the HF-81 for the heavier duty stuff ? If you looking for the SET sound with a little more umph it seems like the HF-81 would of fit the bill nicely. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 I agree with Craig on the HF-81 although it's a bit too late now. HE sold the HF-81 to some loon that actually, in turn, sold it via AudiogoN last week, this while using MY picture of my amp on my site. I wrote him and he was a nice guy but said he met with financial needs and started selling off a bunch of stuff including a mint Mac tube tuner. He sold the HF-81 in a few days. Hey Tim, just bust out and get that pair of 30w Joule Electra Stargates in the other thread; I see them used once in a blue moon! heh... What are you doing listening to Pomp and Pipes anyway? Lord, next thing you know, you'll be firing up Jazz at the Pawnshop! I let the Patricia Barber slide but this? heh.... freak. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted August 17, 2003 Author Share Posted August 17, 2003 Craig, I never clipped my Wrights until after the EICO was gone.. Hindsight is 20/20. Not sure If I want to ditch the 2A3 and go 300B and have one amp for all the music. Kelly raved about the Cary 300SEs before he got into SET himself. I might look into that route. In the interim I might get me some PP monoblocks to tide me over till I make up my mind what I want to do. Kelly - Those Stargates would fit the bill. Kinda pricey but not out of my reach. There are cheaper alternatives. I'm sure that was a tongue and cheek comment. Note: I have a much more eclectic taste than you do for sure... Do you razz ole JF on his listening habits too? heh - It might just be time to dig into the mobile homeless photo bin and see what I can dig up.... Patricia Barber.. You actually remember that. Jeeze. - tb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?ampstube&1064076450 For a third of the price you can get the AE-25 DJH or CAD-808. You have a nice 2A3 setup -- why not a good push-pull to complement it? $4K+ used. Yeesh. I don't care how much the output transformers weigh, I can't see justifiying a pricetag like that on a single ended design. C'mon man -- there's only a dozen or so freaking parts!! There is something else to consider as well. Below is from the ad at AudiogoN: "One monoblock has a scratch on the top transformer cover but if you have been dreaming of owning a pair of single ended amps that are powerful enough to drive difficult loads these are for you." What follows is from the Joule Electa Website: "It brings honest dimension and life to music when coupled to an appropriate loudspeaker. They produce 30 honest, beautiful watts of music making power, which means they perform best with speakers of somewhat higher sensitivity, benign impedance curves and reasonably simple crossovers." A tube amp's power rating is not indicative of whether or not the amp will drive difficult loads without tracking the impedance curve. The Audiogon dealer ad is somewhat misleading. A wild drop or increase in impedance will produce non-flat response into the load. Yeeeeeeeeeeee haaaaaaaaaaaaa You could buy these, but if they were mine -- I would use a 15 ohm resistor in parallel on the amps outputs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Tim, as for the music, I was more razing you about the "Audiophile Approved" tags dealing with those selections (plus, I knew you could take it...heh). As for eclectic music taste, I am not so sure about that one. I have stuff from all corners of the spectrum, some dealing with types of music that doenst even FIT a genre. I usually give the audio audition approved stuff a wide berth as I find it exhibits the soul and substance of a jackdaw. I do still retain a few of those disks but pulling them out to "sample the system" leaves me nonplused and lackluster. As for the Cary 300B, I really liked the original sample, and this a modified one at that (it actually had the extra chassis bank of caps for th PS). To be honest, I think my own Moondogs would probably dig more in the bass with more extention. I dont think the 300B is a really more powerful sounding tube per say than a proper 2A3 in a good circuit. Actually, I think the 2A3 has better bass, believe it or not. The Wright Sound amps have a great midrange but not the last bit in extension in the lower bass and bass. I think you should have kept the EICO for sure. I dont think I would go with another SET but WOULD perhaps look into something from a different ballpark. Dean, that Joule Electra is actually a bit of a different mix than the average SET. Calling it a typical SET amp is not exactly correct. Still, as you know, most of the price of a good SET tube amp (or tube amp in general) is in the output iron, at least in the good amps. I really dont think the AE-25 Superamp is the route to get for plumming the bottom and I dont recommend that amp as much as I used to after living with the regular version for a few months. It's a great amp for the money but does not quite scale the heights in my opinion. I actually preferred the EICO in many ways. I can assure you, the Stargates are on another plane in the clarity-see-thru departmet. Still, at its used price, that AE-23 Supreamp is a nice amp. The price of the DJH version does move the stakes up a bit. I just wouldnt recommend it as a second amp for Tim. Tim, I would sample some amps from your nearest dealer. And I wouldnt go the 300B route either, this in my opinion. I would rather try something altogether different. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted August 17, 2003 Author Share Posted August 17, 2003 Dean - I'll take your advice and check out the Rocket 88. Didn't you have this amp in the past? It's hard for me to keep track.... - tb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 He didnt have the Rocket 88... But there SURE are plenty for sale on AudiogoN. You know, to be honest, I havent liked the later Cary amps for awhile. I dont know... I am contradicting some early comments but having heard a few in the last two years, I have been less impressed than I was in the past. Still, there are SO many Rocket 88 around, it's an easy one to sample. I agree with Dean that it might be a choice to throw in the mix. Dean, this load thing has been something known for awhile. On the other hand, the DANGEROUS AREA of DROP is more in the very low end area. EVen then, I still think your EARS should weigh more heavily than any graphs. Having lived with the Cornwalls for quite awhile with SET and PP, I will say they do VERY well with SET, but better with SET with excellent iron. I have just almost given up trying to make total judgement with specs as they have been contradictted so many time due to other variables. STill, I agree that the load is a hell of a lot to do with it - I found this out when running my Moondogs with ProAcs which were less than 90dB but an easy load. IF the loads of the speaker DROPS big time in the low end, this gives the SET amp some SERIOUS trouble. I wonder WHICH crossover was being used in that Cornwall? kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Kelly, yeah, I agree with you here really. The Stargate appears to be really nice, and I'm not sure if the arrangement of using two tubes in parallel really qualifies it as a true SET. I always thought "single ended" meant just that. It is true though, good iron makes all the difference in the tube world, and it matters not if it's push-pull or SET -- and the Stargate has some serious iron. I guess I just have trouble with the cash layout for them. A lot of money for those, and so many other good things out there for much less. Of course, I haven't heard them, and you have -- so I guess I'm really disqualified from having a valid opinion regarding the price/performance angle. I do like the idea of 30 watts, as I strongly feel Klipsch speakers really benefit from some impedance smoothing by using a resistor in parallel with the amp's outputs -- and this does cut useable power in half. I ran the Quicksilvers this way right up until the day I sold them -- it's a marvelous tweak. The DJH was a much better sounding amp than the stock version, but it still was not tube rectified, and it's true that Heritage really benefits from that. I thought the DJH version was very smooth, warm without giving up detail, and dynamic as well. The 808 offers up some nice options, and no -- I never got around to trying that one, but I'm sure I would have liked it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Ah, you got that post in while I was responding to the one before it. Now I have to type a whole bunch more stuff. Yeesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Christ...here we go again... now I am posting 4-5 posts a day! Look what you have done to me!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCturboT Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 ---------------- On 8/17/2003 7:00:31 PM tbabb wrote: Dean - I'll take your advice and check out the Rocket 88. Didn't you have this amp in the past? It's hard for me to keep track.... - tb ---------------- I noticed the same thing as of late-a lot of used Cary up for sale. Kelly even e-mailed me some time ago recommending the Rocket 88 before the purchase (and sale of my Stingray) for my K-horns. One of the amps I was serioulsy considering at the time was also a Cary SLI 80.Cary definately does make some fine looking gear. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Heh...indeed, I did. Ironically enough, I told Dean to look at a Rocket 88, too! So did Dennis! So did Bobo! Lately, I look at things I said two days ago and scratch my head, wondering what the hell I was thinking. Sometimes, I think I should be put to sleep. I just dont know what my last record would be... kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 The reason there are so many 808's on AudiogoN (or were), is because they have so little gain. If not driven with a high gain preamp they don't fare well. I'm sure you know this. If a person wants Class A push-pull triode, with PIO coupling caps, good wiring and decent output transformers -- where does one go? I think Dennis does really good here. Of course, ask me what I would get with $1500 and it's most definitely going to be a set of Quicksilvers -- but I don't think Tim would go for Ultra-linear with moderate feedback. On the impedance curve front -- I would be equally concerned about spikes in the curve. Where a drop in impedance at a particular frequency would cause a reduction in power, and the associated dip at the frequency in question -- a spike would cause an increase in power output at the given frequency, and of course the associated elevated SPL. This could in fact prove to be more irritating than a drop in the response. Maybe room acoustics help to balance this problem out somewhat, and you are right -- it only matters what you hear. I do know that when I run my amps with the resistors in place -- the sound is richer and smoother, and the horn's "peakiness" is removed. This problem isn't just confined to SET -- but ALL tube amps. The impedance curve is for the Cornwall II. I'm sure the Cornwall with the Type B crossover doesn't look like this at all. It's probably much worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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