Welborne DRD 300B- early impressions

[Mike82]

I received my DRD300 Ultimates (w/TJ meshplates) from Ron about a week ago. They are s-s rectified and factory assembled. So far, I'm quite impressed. I chose the s-s rectified version after a long discussion with Ron. My pre-amp and DAC are tube rectified.

The DRDs look very good. No money wasted on audio "jewelry". Build quality, cable routing, etc., was as good as I've seen. The owner's/assembly manual is very well written and color diagrams show cable routing quite nicely. I could probably have built these myself, but I didn't enjoy my last project (Hafler DH220) back in 1985, so I opted to have them assembled.

There's a lot of hyperbole on the 'net about a piece of gear's attributes, so when I heard the DRDs were dead quiet, I figured, Uh-huh.

First, regarding noise, "there just ain't any". When I first fired the DRDs up, they made some minor tube-rushing noise, but went silent in about 8 seconds. I put my ear right up to the horns and heard nothing!!! Absolutely nothing. Heck, every one of the 15 or so tube amps I've owned in the last 35 years had at least SOME noise. Crap!!! I thought they must be defective.

Well, the tubes didn't look like they were going to melt down or anything. Hmmmm. So, I put some music on and they sounded just fine! Interestingly, the DRD really don't need a lot of time to warm up to sound their best. 5-10 mins gets about 90% of the optimum sound.

While I'm going to complete a full review once they really break in and I have more time with them, I offer the following observations:

Their silence allows me to hear more low level detail than I've ever heard from my system.

In my system- compared to the comparably-priced, very good Audio Note P1-SE Signature (single-ended EL84 w/BG caps, Tantalum, silver), the DRD have more space, air, separation, definition, etc. Basically what one might expect from a good SET amp.

Based on my memory of the excellent Art Audio PX25 (which I owned for over a year), the DRD 300B is a close contender despite being less than 1/3 the cost. IMO, the PX25 tube is a very linear-sounding tube and may have an edge on the 300B on upper frequency extension. However, the DRDs are still new. Also, getting a maxed-out DRD w/full Black Gates and implementing Ron's silver transformer option may allow the DRD to match the PX25's sonic performance for only 2/3 the cost of the Art Audio PX25. But without a doubt, the DRD is MUCH quieter than the PX25.

I also had a friend's Korneff 45 in for a while. The 45 is a great sounding tube. If I knew I'd always own ultra-high efficiency speakers, I'd probably opt for the DRD45. The DRD300 was quieter than the Korneff and seemed a tad more refined in it's ability to flesh our timbral nuance and harmonic textures.

The Wyetech Onyx monoblocks which were being used until a short time ago really excel in bass extension and control... a tad better than the DRD300 (likely given the the better damping of parallel single-ended design), but the amount of gain of the amps caused so much noise as to make them unsuitable for use with Khorns.

More to come after they fully break-in, but for under $2K assembled (less if you build it yourself), the DRDs are a steal. They smoke the other entry-level SET stuff Jolida, Dared, ASL. Not having to price them so a dealer get his "cut", works in our favor.

Mike Masztal

[No Disc]

Mike,

Thanks for sharing your comments. What did you have before the Welborne?

- tb

[Cut-Throat]

Quiet SET amps, That's cool! - I've got my eye on the DRD45's also. Do you know of anyone that has compared the Korneff 45 to the DRD45? One DRD45 user (on AA) claimed it absolutely blew away his Moondogs.

As far as not wanting to build an amp. I built the 300B Billies last year and enjoyed it. I am now building or finishing my downstairs bedroom with tongue and groove paneling. I have had my fill of carpentry for a while - cannot wait to build an amp.

[Deang]

C'mon Mike, I think you could have handled this with one weekend.

So, Ron has a winner?

Lots of money for so few parts.

[Mike82]

I listened to the Wyetech Jade pre-amp/Onyx monoblocks with SAP Quartettes (these were items I sold in my part-time, in-home shop). For <95dB efficiency speakers, the Wyetech gear is tough to beat.

I also had the Art Audio PX25 w/volume control in the shop. It too was nice, but still more noisy than I cared for. The PX25 needs a real low gain pre-amp of which Art Audio makes, but I didn't like the sound the the AA pre-amps.

After getting the Khorns, the Wyetech gear was sold as the gain characteristics caused noise thru the Khorns. In the interim, I used the Audio Note P1SE Sig while I listened to other SET. I got a chance to hear the DRD at the MWAF and was impressed with the presentation. I've also known Ron for a few years and know of the quality of his products, but I don't do kit building, so I never had the opportunity to give his stuff an extended listen.

[mobile homeless]

Mike, interesting and nicely laid out initial review. What made you elect to go with the 300B vs other tubes choices like the 2A3? In the past, besides a few examples, I have generaly preferred the 2A3 to the 300B but I have heard good examples of both amplfiers.

It seems the DRD 300B is the only one of the lineup that doesnt us all AC filiments on the tubes. The 300B version opts for the DC filiments on the 300B tube which probably account for that extra low level of noise. There is a lot of debate about which brings the best sound, AC or DC filiments with the old addage being AC, but with additional noise. Wonder what others are saying about this. Perhaps it was necessary to provide for a quiet amp in this version. AC is generally thought to sound better.

Based on his comments online, I know Ron sides more with the SS rectified implementation is his latest DRD amps. Among other reasons, he sites the DRD design and its less reliance on the PS as well as the careful use of fast recovery Schottsky diodes and the snubber networks, in addition to ye olde well-filtered supply. I am still not totally convinced. It certainly is cheaper to implement and less heat as well (not as much drain on that ole power trans). Notice he does say "in the DRD amps" when saying he prefers SS rectification. I would love to hear the two side by side over a period of time.

Looking foward to more impressions. On a side note, although your Audio Note preamp is tube rectified, I dont think the 2.1 DAC is. This just has a tube output stage but not a tube rectified power supply. It uses Schottsky diodes as rectification I believe. Audio Note is a huge proponent of tube recitifcation in their amplifiers/preamps so you might have been confused by this.

Look forward to more comments.

- Kelly

ps- Dean, using your "money for amount of parts" philosophy, we should have some $4000 rack system amps...

[Mike82]

Cut-Throat & Dean. I love woodworking, but electronics assembly ain't my bag. Yes, the DRD is a pretty simple design, but I'm one of the AADD (adult attention deficit disorder) folks you see on the TV commercials. I'd need heavy medication to get these completed.

Dean, there's a lot more parts than you think. Quality components is also what you are paying for. Again,IMO this amp is a value for the $$$.

Mobile thanks for your comments. RE: the AN 2.1x Sig DAC. Gimme a break! :-) I think I'd know if I had a tube rectified DAC! You are correct that the 2.1x DAC is not tube rectified, but the 2.1x "Signature" DAC is. It uses a 6X5 rectifier. I've already traded it up for a 3.1x Balanced which should be here in a couple weeks.

Why did I choose the 300B vs. 2A3/45? Primarily, because we tend to move frequently. My wife's an exec at a large consulting firm and we move when the company transferrs her. Given that, I may not always be able to use Khorns/Belle/LS or other horn systems. The 300B's extra watts allows for more choice between speakers. If I knew I'd be staying where I'm at, I would have bought the 45, as I like the sound of this tube the best. It's a small trade-off.

[mobile homeless]

Sorry for the DAC 2.1x Signature confusion. The reason why I knew this was that I was researching DACs for a friend and had been all through the Audio Note site noting the distinctions between the various "LEVELS". According to the info, the 2.1x, 2.1x Signature, and Signature Balanced all use SS rectification. IT is not until the Level 3 that tubes are implemented in the position here. So they must have added this at the last minute as an option or upgrade to the 2.1x Signature/balanced version. IT sure wasnt there when I looked last (and not there today either).

See See 2.1x Chart

Did Ron talk about the DC vs AC filiment on the 300B aspect?

kh

[Mike82]

Kelly:

I did not discuss the DC vs AC filament technical issues at length with Ron. He's a down-to-earth approachable guy. I'm sure he'd answer any questions you might have if you emailed him.

RE: the DAC. I think the "x" version is when they started using the tube rectifier in the Signature and Balanced DACs. The upgraded parts, AN copper/silver foil caps, Tantalum resistors, better t-formers really makes a difference in the sonics. The 3.1x Balanced uses even better parts than the 2.1x Sig.

[mobile homeless]

Mike, did you see that chart of the options via the 2.1x line link above? Go down the page about halfway. That is what I was referring to. They actually specifically address the rectification issue for the 2.1x, 2.1x Sig, and 2.1x Sig Balanced. This must have been a later add on per the site info.

As for Ron, I have known him online for quite a while. We have shared many mails as well as site help here and there. Be happy you are buying a piece of gear because ole Ron can be a bit hard to deal with at times. We had a serious run-in a several years ago that stretched most bounderies of ethics; all was worked out in the end. He can, however, be pretty short via mail and posts. He definitely has several sides as we all do, and it's best to catch him on the right day (sometimes troubling with a manufacturer). Erik and Dean have had some so-so dealings with him as well. He does put out a great kit and fine product though. I think it's best to get him on the phone if possible. He is not too patient with certain questions nor with people modifying any of his amps. He can be quite short at times.

kh

[Mike82]

Yeah, I see it. The rectifier isn't shown until near the bottom of the chart. Audio Note's notorious for not updating their website. Peter Q readily admits it. They still show the 3.1x and 3.1x Signature, which have been discontinued with the advent to the 2.1 Balanced. Apparently, the 2.1 Balanced sounds better than either the 3.1x or 3.1x Signature. The only current 3 level DAC offering is the 3.1 Balanced.

Ron's "crankiness" may have had a lot to do with working for Ricardo Kron (RIP) back then. I doubt I'd have had his patience.

[NOSValves]

Mike,

What exact amps were playing in Ron's room at the MWAF ??

Craig

[mobile homeless]

No matter what the amp playing, I have found the setups of gear in these hotel rooms/convention halls to be really subpar, regardless of gear. I have avoided most of the shows for this reason and have only heard demos in these type of conditions. While it's great to be exposed to the new stuff, rarely is the sound up to par with what the gear can do; this seems to hold true no matter if it's SS, tubes, horns etc. Sometimes you get lucky...sometimes something good comes from the mess. But damn if it's almost a losing battle half the time. I know that Ron was bringing a lot of his "Moondog Audio" gear to some of these recent events as he was trying to get that new company off the ground. Not sure what he had at this last show.

kh

[Mike82]

Craig:

Ron had the 300B (s-s rect) at the MWAF. He also used the Oris 150 w/AER NkII and Onken bass cabinet rather than the Maya horn-loaded sub which I heard at last year's CES.

Kelly:

Man, are you right about the shows. I've been to quite a few CES and SP shows and this year's MWAF. The room-acoustic problems can be a real problem for the exhibitors. Many have to change the room set-up 2-3 times before they get their systems to sound decent. Then, once everything is plugged in, it takes a day or 2 for the systems to "settle in". A lot of digital gear needs a couple days just to stabilize. Many complain that the sound isn;t decent until the last day of the show. I agree. Besides room problems, the power is usually $#!t. Experienced exhibitors know this and usually bring along conditioners or isolation transformers which help. Then trying to get a seat in the "sweet spot" can be an adventure.

For instance, Ron's Moondog/Maya system at last year's CES (actually, THE SHOW), got my vote for best sound at the show, or any show for that matter. On the flip side, his room at '03 MWAF had some of the worst bass response I've ever heard. I felt bad for him. He probably wished he had a RCS to correct the funky acoustics. Had I not known better, I would have faulted the equipment.

[NOSValves]

Bad was not the word for it !! I thought his setup was the worst I heard there. I still find it hard to swallow that a room can destroy the sound of a well balanced setup. I'm sure it can hurt it but were talking horrible here.

Craig

[mobile homeless]

You find it hard to swallow that a room can destroy a well balanced setup?? These rooms and places can make the best system sound like DRECK, especially finicky systems that rely on the details. In addition, the exhibitor can be poor at setting things up and not get the gear a proper respresentaion. All of those things that Mike mentioned above are true and a headache.

My first real exposure to this was when I was around Cary Audio in the late 80s, early 90s. They were working on a setup for a CES of their brand new 300SE SET amps, this with some PRoAcs. They knew it was IMPERATIVE to at least get decent sound since most had not seen 8w amps and this room would be a nightmare. They tried to duplicate the room in NC and it was a headache to be sure. I heard that system sound so different based on the tweaks, you couldt even recognize it at times! Luckily, they had the Asian market as the US was not yet open to SET and the speaker selection was dismal. And they WERE able to get the room and system up to par, but I dont think they would have been so lucky if not for the practice.

You really cant base an opinion on the gear from these places and if dropping hard conclusions from this exposure, I would really reconsider saying them in public without a disclaimer at the very least. The circumstances in ALL assessments of gear are important as hell, whether it be room, music, gear, setup, circumstances etc. That is what makes judegment of all of this so problematic. I have never criticized something heavily based on a single listening session at a hifi hut or, even worse, one of these shows. These places are meant for exposure and a taste. Drawing sonic conclusions when the sound is awful doesnt always get the whole picture for the gear. On the other hand, sometimes the gear plain STINKS as well as the systme matching. I dont think any of Ron's gear can be placed on that plateau (with the exception of system matcning which is a nitemare in your own home half the time).

kh

[Mike82]

Craig:

There was worse at MWAF. Like I said, if I didn't know any better, I would have blamed the gear.

[NOSValves]

When did I give any review or opinion on the gear itself ? All I did was agree that it sounded bad and express my disbelief that a good strong system can be destroyed by the room! You would at least expect to get some Idea of its character ! I mean were talking about a simple 12" X 12' room hear not all the hard to get setup up with at least reasonably good sound. There were 3 of us making the rounds together and we all came to pretty much the same conclusions.

If I can get great sound out of my wreck of a shop down the basement then I assure you I could set my system up in any room that was there and get better then my basement.

I think the difference is a strong solid well rounded system can overcome room acoustics with relative ease compared to a system that is struggleling hence the room can amplify its weakness. The bass region was where this setup really had trouble which makes perfect sense to me.

Craig

[sfogg]

" I mean were talking about a simple 12" X 12' room hear not all the hard to get setup up with at least reasonably good sound."

There is nothing simple about a 12x12 room. A 12x12 room would be horrible to get smooth bass response in. You never want any of your dimensions in a room to be the same and they really shouldn't be multiples of each other either. Otherwise you will get some very strong standing waves in the room.

The best gear in the world can't fix that. Room EQ could potentially tame the peaks but to fill in the gaps takes enourmous amounts of power (both in the amp and in the speakers output ability) so it is better to try to avoid that in the first place.

Shawn

[NOSValves]

Well I didn't get a tape measure out a measure the room !! Who knows what it actually measured. There were plenty of other systems setup in similar rooms without this ill effect to the bass in such a extreme manor.

Craig