3dzapper Posted October 19, 2003 Share Posted October 19, 2003 Any time you have electricity flowing through a conductor you have a magnetic field developed. The straight path of the solid core VS the twisted strands of audio cable will have a larger field as the twists tend cancel out each other's field. Another factor in high frequency transmission is the surface effect of the conductor. A solid wire has little surface as compared to a multi-strand cable. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 I have heard this argument regarding the use of solid core copper wire for speaker applications before. And because I have not witnessed audibly-detrimental results in the setups I have observed, I must stand neutral on the argument's validity. Perhaps these factors may be demostrated through measurements using test gear? I do know that stranded wire was first invented so that the wire could be moved numerous times before there is a loss of conducivity due to breakage of the conductors. It is my understanding that copper wire, whether stranded or solid, conducts electrons. I also understand that anytime you have current flowing through a conductor, you also have a magnetic field. How the solid wire becomes vulnerable to hysteresis loss, etc. is obviously beyond my education in this area and I appologize if I may have misinformed anyone. Thank you 3dzapper for your obvious wisdom on this subject. So, you don't want to be "picky", eh? Good one. I use 12ga. STRANDED Tributaries wire on my system, including within the walls. The cable is run through 3/4" "Smurf Tube" (AKA Flex-Plus Blue ENT) blue corrugated, PVC flexible tubing, which is available from Home Depot. This allows me to "change-out" the wire later if I want to. -Picky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMays Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 I bi-wire with Kimber Kable. I probabaly spent about $1,000 on speaker cable runs and could tell a difference between bi-wired 8TC product and 14 or 16 guage stuff I had on the system. I connected one speaker with the Kimber and left the old stuff on the other speaker. When my wife came home I commented that I thought the speakers sounded different for "some reason". She had no idea that I had changed speaker wire to one speaker. After careful listening she commented that one speaker sounded "clearer" than the other and I better take the reciever in for warranty work. I then told her what I had done. I did this because I I could tell a difference but felt I might not be subjective enough to truthfully tell the difference. After all, I had just spent a "butt load" of money on cables that would sound better. If I had to do it over again I might have tried bi-wiring with regular 12 guage speaker cable and pocketed the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterbwreal Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 At the time, I was trying to get away from bright shrilly highs with my home built speakers (using a Morel MDT-33 tweeter) and when the Tara Labs was hooked up, it even added more high frequency content. I have found this discussion very interesting because I was a complete cynic about the value of high-cost speaker wire. Some years ago a friend of mine went to work for Tara labs and brought a series of different "demo" cables to my house to prove to me that speaker wire made a difference. Having been a firm believer in 12 ga. lamp cord for 40 years, I was totally amazed by the very obvious difference in sound by different wires. I'm no expert, but as a result I'm a believer in Tara Labs wires. Peter Brunner My Humble System: Dynaco PAS-3 preamp Dynaco ST-35 power amp '86 Belles RSW-12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 I'm sceptical about the advantages of any super wire. But I must keep an open mind. Actually, I'm hopeless in this area. Someday some super wire may knock me off my horse. I do note that voice coil windings and transformer windings are make out of solid wire. Granted, the use of stranded wire would be unworkable. None the less, if you have an amp with output transformers, and voice coil, and a short length of stranded speaker lead wire, you wind up with an interesting situation. There is a lot more solid wire in the loop than stranded. We could throw in an inductor or autotransformer with solid wire to up the length of solid wire a bit more. I can't buy that skin effect at 15 kHz has any effect. It is also an observation that at least some of our TV cable distribution systems use a solid center conductor. Best. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Like I'd put any faith in the acuity of a guy who combines a 12" mini-sub with horn-loaded woofers. If that's your taste I don't give a good Goddam what you think you hear, you've no credibility with me. Unlike many here I've actually taken part in DBTs comparing various speaker wires and in these tests nobody could tell a difference. Delusion, stupidity and gullibility are at an all time high in this hobby. To think that some goons are being conned and then are happy to be conned, are willingly bending over to get it stuck in their *** is amazing. How people can be so unhep in public, to display willingly to the world that they're a mark and a rube, is beyond the ken of this fella who grew up wise on the West Side of Chicago and learned at an early age about keeping his money in a clip and in his front pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Gil, I have always used lamp wire for my speakers too. I used 16ga for years then 12ga. the 12 definal\tly made an impeovement in bass "tightness". This week I made up a set of bi-wire cables using 14 and 18 gauge silver plated OFC copper. I can hear the difference but am not certain it's better. The only way I would use megabucks cables is if they were given to me. Spending that much money makes as much sense to me as going to see the Indians at Foxwoods. I wish I still had my textbooks so that I could cite the reference on skin effect. But, they were lost in a flood many years ago. They taught us to use multistrand wire for low voltage audio runs to preserve the HF response due to the greater surface area of the many strands. Yes cable uses a single center conductor. However it is a balanced 75ohm transmission line, The RF energy is transmitted along the length of the cable like the waves of audio in a horn. Super high freguencies like radar and microwaves don't even have the center wire. They are moved via waveguides. Intrinsically you know that stranded is better fot audio else you (as would we all) would use inexpensive romex from the amp to the speakers. PWK said to use the lamp cord it's all you need. He was probably right, again. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Err. Don't take me too seriously. I was just trying to stir the pot here. As if the topic of wire needed any more wise aker remarks. BTW I just walked over to HD and bought a 250 foot spool of 16 awg white zip cord. Cost there is 18 cents a foot. Buying by the foot and having a guy cut it costs 25 cents a foot. On the way back I discovered a new Best Buy. They had more expensive Monster Wire in 100 foot reels. Also some Synergy in boxes next to Bose. (No, the PWK force did not not cause the Bose trademark to char, per Raiders of the Lost Ark.) This neighboorhood is can be dangerous to the pocketbook! It's quite a wonder these shops are within walking distance. Smile, Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterbwreal Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 ---------------- On 10/24/2003 8:00:21 PM TBrennan wrote: Like I'd put any faith in the acuity of a guy who combines a 12" mini-sub with horn-loaded woofers. If that's your taste I don't give a good Goddam what you think you hear, you've no credibility with me. Unlike many here I've actually taken part in DBTs comparing various speaker wires and in these tests nobody could tell a difference. Delusion, stupidity and gullibility are at an all time high in this hobby. To think that some goons are being conned and then are happy to be conned, are willingly bending over to get it stuck in their *** is amazing. How people can be so unhep in public, to display willingly to the world that they're a mark and a rube, is beyond the ken of this fella who grew up wise on the West Side of Chicago and learned at an early age about keeping his money in a clip and in his front pocket. ---------------- Geez, what did I do to this guy? Lighten up, Pal! Life in general(and audio in particular) isn't worth all this high blood pressure. Good thing this is the internet and not some dark corner in Chicago, where I know you would not slide so easily for mouthing off so rudely over so very little. Have a nice day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 For wiring my enclosures I used some 12 gauge copper from Home Depot, too, for lack of anything more handy. There is something to be said for pure silver stuff, but it is probably better used on the upstream components rather than the back end, although if I were extremely rich and anal about it, I would go with silver all the way. Also the larger the bore the better... I've tried fancy high-end interconnects and REALLY - silver is better than copper hands down at any length and then the shorter the run of silver, the better (i.e., 1/2 m. is better than 1 m., etc.). Now, how much better than copper, I will leave to you. The performance-to-price ratio is certainly not balanced. They are not "twice as good" but they are definately better performing than copper, in my opinion. I am using Alpha-core silver interconnects. Tried both RCA and XLR (stayed with XLR). However, due to costs involved, I am using copper speaker wire, and because of that, assume that there is no reason to go any better on the speaker end of things as very short lengths are involved in the xover and speaker cabinet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschfoot Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 A-B tests are difficult with speaker runs. One thing that holds true is the length of run from your amps to your speakers - keep them as short as possible. You just have to find out what your ear can hear. Nothing else matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Awww, we have to go easy on Tom B. He's okay. Folks from the west side have to prove they're tougher than people from the south side. It is quite a competition. Sort of like JBL versus Altec. Smile. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VADER Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Cardas & Klipsh is a marriage made in heaven. However the average person on this forum believes in using a receiver instead of a a power amp. If you are going to run solid state components & want to gain the most out of Klipsch products, you must start with a warm sounding power amp.The More power the better, there is no substitute for power. Next up in the equation are your cables/interconnects. Cardas uses silver & they add warmth to help tame down the horns. I just can't believe how people on this forum continue to mis-match components & cables! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 I can't believe the way some people on this forum believe in using wires and patchcords (oh, I'm sorry, CABLES and INTERCONNECTS) as equalizers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnorv Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Tom, you have given away your position as an audiophile. Anyone, with an ounce of intellegence, knows that you cannot get decent speaker cables and interconnects for less than $1000 per foot. How pedestrian of you. Jim N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 As far as speaker wire goes i cannot tell you anything other than my experience in the last 2 weeks. i just had my system set up and the dealer set it up with top of the line monster cable...as luck would have it 1 speaker wire actually stopped working and blew the left channel in my amp. I gave all monster cable back to dealer got 2000.oo in credit and purchased canare cable all around for about 800.00 (nice savings) when i listened to the system after the new cable was put in i felt i could definatly here a smoother less bright sound coming out of my speakers...it seemeed to make a difference... BUT AFTER READING ALL THE ARTICLES HERE RE: SPEAKER CABLE 12 GUAGE FROM HOME DEPOT...MAYBE I AM INSANE HEARING THE DIFFERENCE...BOTTOM LINE I AM HAPPY SAVING THE MONEY..BUY NEXT TIME I NEED MORE(WHICH WILL BE NEXT WEEK, CAUSE I GOT MORE SPEAKERS COMING)I THINK ILL GO TO HOME DEPOT...AND REALLY SAVE-ALSO COMPARE I'LL LET YOU KNOW SMILIN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 I have friends that used to say the same thing- until I proved it to them by A-B'ing different interconnects. Anyone whose tried different inteconnects can EASILY tell the difference between copper and silver. It is a simple fact of science that silver transfers electricity more efficiently. Why do you think that RADAR waveguides are coated inside with silver? Simply LESS LOSS to the signal for given length of run. I rest my case. Also ANY wire will alter the signal passing through it. The point is to choose the one that does the least damage. If one has a good enough quality of source electronics, then the cabling quality will be audibly discernable. Each cable type and length will have a "flavor" all of its own, so I agree that the choice of cabling can be used to advantage in any listening environment. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 i'm really surprised that no one has suggested the really ultimate wire..... afraid to give everyone else "the secret".... wire your speakers with 22 gauge solid wire and (here's the tricky part) put a flux capacitor across the leads.... truly amazing sound! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 What's the D stand for, dil....never mind. Yeah, silver has a little less resistance than copper and a slightly larger copper wire will have less resistance than a smaller silver one. That arguement just leads in circles, though many audiophiles are content to run in circles. You argue by assertion, you assert that "all" wires change the sound. No proof, just assertion, common knowledge just like "everybody knows" that Grant beat Lee at Gettysburg and there were shooters on the grassy knoll, evidently armed with black powder rifles. All your assertions mean nothing without DBTs. Audiophiles have an endless capability for self-delusion. How about the fact that audiophiles in the 50s and 60s, using better gear than most modern ones use, didn't hear these differences in wires and patchcords? How come it wasn't until the drug-addled Baby-Boomers got into hi-fi that this stuff happens? Hmmmm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Flux capacitor! Lol! Russ, you are too funny. What happens when you play 88 hz? The speakers just dissapear? LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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