soicanstabyou Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 hi. i am making a system for my room that is centered around phono. i got an older luxman p277 turntable with a grado gf3 cartridge from a friend and it has a having a bit of trouble deciding on an amplifier. i saw a nad 304 online for 150$ i think and was considering that, but i couldnt find much information about it. for speakers i was thinking about trying something like this http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_files/Projects/D3/dayton3.htm... any input would be appreciated as i am still quite a novice at this. but please keep in mind that i have a very limited budget. thanks in advance ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Exuse me, but are you lost? You are at the Klipsch Website. BTW -- I find your moniker offensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soicanstabyou Posted September 10, 2003 Author Share Posted September 10, 2003 my name is a bit of an inside joke. i am not lost.. at least not in the sense that you are using it. i own klipsch promedia 4.1 speakers and came here looking for advice on how to upgrade the wires for them about a year ago. from what i read the people on the boards seemed to be intelligent and i respected them, therefore i thought that this might be a good place to ask for advice... im sorry if this isnt appropriate, as i am not familiar with what is normal. if this is comletely out of line do you have any suggestions to another message board i can go to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 O.K., so you're not a pyscho -- cool Limited budget? Regardless, stay with horns. You bought the Promedia system undoubtably because you thought it sounded better than anything else you heard -- and it was certainly very well received by reviewers. It will be no different moving up. Klipsch will give you highest performance/cost ratio than anything else I can think of. Why don't you pick up some used KG's off of eBay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soicanstabyou Posted September 10, 2003 Author Share Posted September 10, 2003 i'll give that a try. any thoughts on a pretty cheap amplifier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 What about an older quality integrated amplifier with built in phono stage. These can be had for cheap at most garage sales, in pawn shops, or on e-bay. I bought an akai am u-7 integrated amp for $ 29.99 canadian which works great. There are plenty of quality well built units from pioneer, kenwood and others from the late 70's and early 80's. Most people will almost give them away because they are no longer in widespread use. Nowdays, most average consumers want a receiver with 5 channels of power, and loads of features. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 How about a used harman/kardon 430 receiver? They're dirt cheap, and highly regarded SS power for Klipsch loudspeakers. Many forum members swear by them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soicanstabyou Posted September 10, 2003 Author Share Posted September 10, 2003 an older integrated amp with phono was my plan.. my problem is i dont know which are the quality ones. sure.. if i can find one / enough money to pay for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 I personally love the tube integrateds the best, with vintage tubes coming in #1. I'll stop hawking the EICO HF-81, my favorite tube integrated, for a minute and suggest you opt for a Scott 299a Mk II or something similar, this redone by NOSValves as he does fine work for a rookie (heh) and has the best warranty running. I know, I wrote his website. His Scott 299 amps are gone through with care by someone with pride plus they have a quality phono stage. You'll pay a bit more but have sound that will walk all over even the better SS integrateds. If you are stuck on solid state integrateds with a phono, there are some interesting selections. The little NAD 304 you saw is a neat little sample that is ok for SS (I like the low watt NAD the best). If you are stuck in the under $150 area, they can be had here. Ditto for the really sweet little NAD 3020 that is found around 100. You see the H/K 430 integrated as well. This is the cheapest alternative and many love the punchy warm H/K. The phono stage is probably nothing to write home about but the unit is cheap on ebay. If going a notch up from these...stay tuned... more recs to follow. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 With 85dB sensitivity you have what I consider a ss-friendly speaker. Also, you'll need 50 Watts or more of power. My speakers have 101dB sensitivity and my amps produce 3.5 Watts (maybe). To get the same amplitude out of an 85dB speaker one requires 3.5 x 2**5 or 3.5 x 32 or 112 Watts. Anybody .. this math is right, yes? At 3.5 Watts my Chorus-IIs produce over 105dB at a meter. Now maybe the speakers shown just won't do 105dB so I went for 102dB and 50 Watts. I think my old Magneplaners were around 85dB and anything ss sounded fine because the power draw was so high. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 That Dayton model uses the same D'Appolito configuration as my ProAc Mini-Towers. Leo, I do believe this speaker is supposed to be more in the line of 89.5dB which does offer a bit more sensitivity than a low 85. I also always found that besides sensitivity, the curve and any real low dips to be just as important in the ease to which an amplifier can power a speaker. Obviously, this is more critical with SET designs but all 89dB speakers dont bring out the same in an amp. Ditto for all 100dB. And the amp design makes a difference as well, given the exact same speaker. I find so many recs and assessments tend to leave out the variables here. A 3w Bottlehead Paramour sure sounds different than a 3w Moondog when driving the same 95dB speaker. There is a lot more to the picture than watts and sensitivity as I know you know. The impedance graph for the Dayton doesnt seem to show it making huge dips in the ultra low ohm range - I just glanced at the page quickly. I know my ProAcs sound VERY good with tubes and while not the sensitivity king, they do well with lower watt amps due to the benign impedance curve. The 8w Cary 300se sounded amazing with small group and jazz but would not fully bloom and sing with heavier material even though the sound was not bad per say. I think the quality of the amp plays such a large role and sometimes the watts rating is almost secondary for some. Shopping by watts and graphs can bring sonic disappointment faster than a runaway freight train but their are limits. 3w on a 90dB speaker will NEVER fully sing. But 14-20w tube on a benign impedance 89db speaker should be very nice with HEAVY look toward the quality of the power supply and iron. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 NAD is a good budget choice. Well known for their no-frills, straight forward design approach. I'd dump the Luxman turntable though. While Luxman has made some of the best audio gear available over the years, their turntables are not among them. Beautiful. Built like Rolls Royces. But their performance is terrible, prone to feedback. Very poor isolation from airbourne sound & vibration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Even at 89.5db an amp would need 56watts @ 101db spl. With 3db headroom that's still 112 watts/channel. Of course the peaks will be much higher than that. Another good sounding combo I've seen on ebay is the Nikko alpha amp/beta preamp. They even sound very good(not great like valves) with my horns. Marantz from the early seventies are also very good. I ran a 2325 reciever for years and loved it. I still fire it up from time to time but the controls are noisey now. Rick PS: Kelly is my sig better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Careful with the headroom. I had already included headroom in my rough calculatons in that I find 3.5 Watts has sufficient headroom with my 101dB Chorus-II. Cheap excess power can eventually mess up even an inefficient speaker's detail capability. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 I would not be so fast to dump your luxman pd-277, which is very similar to my pd-272, just mine is manual. while it may be prone to feedback you can always enhance its isolation via add-on isolation devices, I have done this with great sucess. not SOTA but quite servicable. regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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