maxg Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Well there I was thinking for a few minutes that I would buy the Nottingham TT, run 2 arms and carts on it and be happy. The plan was to use my Clearaudio Virtuoso on the unipivot arm and something else (probably a Denon 103) on my existing Project arm that has been tuned up to the 9's. I could then connect the clearaudio to my Project phono box (as a high output MM cart the phono box is fine for this - I have tried it out) and the Denon to the Tango (low output MC - again an ideal mix). The Clearaudio could then be used for classical (where it excels) and good condition vinyl and the Denon for other recordings. A neat and perfect (ish) solution that cannibalizes the project nicely. Now everything has changed. Why? Well I have just confirmed that on Monday a Shelter 901 will be mine (2nd hand - know the history - about 100 hours total playing time). Price $600. The problem is that the Clearaudio is now, clearly redundant. Everything it does well is bettered by the Shelter. In fact the whole logic behind having 2 carts has also effectively disappeared as the Shelter is supposed to be brilliant in all areas (seems audiophiles rate this as one of the top 3 cartridges in the world). All of this means that I could now simply sell the project as is and buy something else, whether that should still be the Nottingham or not I dont know. Or, I could continue with the idea of 2 arms and buy a cheapo cart for general use, saving the Shelter for best. Whilst there is some appeal to this idea I know deep down that I wont be able to listen to the cheapo at all - its just not how I listen to music, so it wont get used. Of course all of the above is bringing up money issues left right and centre. I dont want to drop bundles on this. I just want to put together a decent solution for as little $$$ as possible. The Shelter is just too good an opportunity to pass up. Add to this the fact that I cant think of anyone who would want to buy the project as is, at least for reasonable money! So now I am totally confused - again. This damn hobby of ours..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted October 16, 2003 Author Share Posted October 16, 2003 What no responses?? Not a one? I was expecting someone to chime in with at least a "wouldnt give the 901 house-room" or a "throw that japcrap away" or something. Maybe even a suggestion as to direction? Ah well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Maybe you should switch back to the Sansui's Peace, Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted October 16, 2003 Author Share Posted October 16, 2003 Thanks Josh. At least I know there is someone out there. You dont happen to work for Microsoft do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 I dont even know what you are asking really... Whether to buy an ultra cheap cartridge to run on your second arm? Ditch the second arm concept and use the Project? What table to buy? To answer that first question, it's a total waste to me. Why do all this work for a poor option? At least get a VERY good table and save money on the second arm etc and throw into your new purchase. I dont agree that you couldnt sell your Project. I think it would sell on Audiogon or ebay. I did see you were looking at the Clearaudio Champion. Surely, a fine table but not my choice in that price range. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted October 16, 2003 Author Share Posted October 16, 2003 Good Kelly, You were heading into the right direction towards the end of the post. I am now abandoning the 2 arm / 2 cartrdige approach and going to get a better TT to sit the Shelter on. I mentioned the Clearaudio as that has been offered to me from my friendly neighbourhood dealer and he will take the Project in PX. Not only that but he will take the Clearaudio virtuoso cartridge back (he sold it to me originally), swap my project arm out onto the clearaudio (it fits) and do the installation of the shelter. He'll even take the Proejct phono box in. The net result of all of the above is that I will shell out about $400 on top of what I am paying for the cartridge. To me that seems a reasonably sweet deal. Not an end of the world, last chance, you'll never see this again opportunity but a reasonable deal that I would walk away from for a better TT. So Kelly, what TT would you get in the price range (say $1200 for the unit sans arm)? And, between the Nottingham and the above Clearaudio which would you choose? (these are not the only options - just options I have looked at to date) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Max FWIW, I'm pretty happy with my "budget" system (less than $100 into it!) Kenwood KD-500, Infinity Black Widow arm, Shure v-15 type IV (with type III stylus). I'll be using it more, as soon as I can get under the house to beef-up the floor (when I remod the bathroom and have a convenient access hole), to keep the rig from bouncing every time I walk past. Not in your league though, you big audio nut, you! fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted October 16, 2003 Author Share Posted October 16, 2003 "Not in your league though, you big audio nut, you!" LOL. I think I am going to write a book entitled "The accidental Audiophile" Over a period of time stuff comes up that is irresistable. This cartridge was one of them - but it is making significant waves systemwise. I just cant - all in good concience put that cart on a project RPM 4. Good as I think the RPM 4 is (and for its money I think it is remarkable) it is plainly wrong to have a $1300 cart (that is compared to carts costing $5000) on a table that costs $400. I like the idea of the Clearaudio because: a/ It is a decent offer. b/ It is upgradable - spread the pain of spending some relatively serious $$$ on the pick up over a period of time. c/ It is very well respected as a TT - one hopes with good reason. d/ It looks sexy as hell. e/ The warranty is 3 years (decent) and its made in Germany which has a good reputation. f/ It is not an all metal jobbie. Most of the German alternatives are chromed to the hilt and something about that doesnt tie in with warm and mellow sound to me. Now I am not going to claim that I would want to snuggle up to an acrylic platter but somehow as it is the same material (or more similar) to that used in records it makes more sense to my befuddled brain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 see below Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 I'll throw you some recs. Although a nice deal, I am not so sure a VPI Scout wouldnt be a better table altogether compared to the acrylic Champion. For $1300 or so depending with JP9 tonearm, the VPI Scout is surely a helluva deal. But on top of all this, I am not sure I am one with the Acrylic platter. Although I sure dont agree with Michael Fremer all the time, I will side with his view on the acrylic platter as well, even though I have recommended tables with them in the past. I think they can be good.... but... I have been comparing the Linn LP-12 with the Progressive-Engineering table for half a year or more. While the Progressive-Engineering table is the most non tweaking, easy to use, built like the proverbial TANK and more, quiet, turntable I have ever used, I side with the Linn in the musicality department at time, which is why I love vinyl so much in the first place. Still, if I had to choose between the Progressive-Engineering "The Turntable" and the Linn, I would give the not to The Turntable. It is the most fuss free, engineering tour de force I have used. It's just hard to not love the Linn... and the Linn platter is a great piece of work. But imagine the WHOLE PE table built like the Linn platter! heh. The Clearaudio Champion will be an upgrade...but how much of one? HAve you auditioned the VPI Scout? As a final plug for the VPI Scout, the TONEARM that comes with it will be a major upgrade to yours and will facilitate INSTANT cartridge changes with a different ARM WAND you just insert. This is another break for you. As a final comment, I realize that the SCOUT is an acrylic platter as well but I think it's far more a bargain than the Clearaudio. I would recommend the Linn LP-12 but not sure how you would feel about a table that needs more care in the whole process. As for the Progressive-Engineering turntable option, it's in the next price range at $3k not including arm. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Damn, just lost my post when submitting. Kelly, You hit it on the nose, this or the Aries will be my next table. Tom P.S. This is the abbreviated version of the original post, didn't feel like rewriting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 You should see the post I lost in that cheap 6SN7/SET thread! I had some funny lines, my usual four or five paragraphs of blather, and a picture. BOOM...ALL GONE. Swine forum. I sometime compose in my damn email program but have been getting lazy... I still like the Linn LP-12 for the soul and rhythm it brings to the table. But you have to have a way with machines to own one. The VPI Scout presents the best all around DEAL in TT right now. The MMF-7 is right up there but not built near the standard of the SCOUT (but it's $400-500 cheaper new from ole Wally). kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Max I'd look for a decent second-hand Thorens (perhaps a TD124) plus a 3012 SME arm. If not that model I'd still go for a thorens as the ability to get spare parts ist still very good. A friend has just got himself original parts for his TD124 - and we are talking about a 40 years old table. Add to this the qualuíty of the SME and your cartridge will surely reveal the beauty of vinyl. Oh and if no TD 124 crosses your path, the TD520 isn't bad either - and it accepts long arms, too . Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Somehow, I cant see ole Max with a TD-124. These things need to be whipped into shape 8 out of 10 times with some mods and repair. I know Allan had to put some time into his. HAving a perfect Thorens drop into your lap is not as easy as it looks, at least from what I have heard. That is why I didnt recommend the Linn LP-12. It's another table that demands a bit of attention in setup and use. It's still one of my favorite tables and I prefer it to any of the Thorens I have heard. I will say right out, I have never heard a proper TD-124 but know people that love theirs to death. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Kelly, I see your point about the TD 124 - and yes, it's valid. Other models though are much less of a hassle. I could get a TD 124 in top notch condition with the 3012 SME arm, but funds prevent me from rushing out straight away. Luckily I know the seller and he isn't in a hurry, so perhaps in the not too distant future............. . Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 These things are bringing heavy prices now. I love going to the ANALOG DEPT page to see all the guys that have tweaked their Thorens. Some of the work is really excellent. Let us know when you get the beast. Did those MC-30 arrive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 The TD-124 is the most heavy-duty piece of hi-fi gear I have ever owned--it's built like a battleship! The platter alone weighs more than some tables I've owned! But Kelly is absolutely right--I spent the better part of a YEAR dialing in the TD-124 and that includes building a custom shot-filled powder-coated steel stand, making a solid hard rock maple plinth (stained a very nice medium hued mahogony), powering it with a PS Audio P300 Power Plant, making both a sand-box AND air-bladder (it needs BOTH) for it to sit on--and this is AFTER spending hours replacing ALL of the rubber and the thrust bearing and lots of tedious cleaning and reassembly. You can get a nice TD-124 for about $400, but it will NOT sound like mine! And then you have to find a nice SME 3012 and a good SPU (another $800 or $900 EASY). There was something magical about it right from the get-go, and thats why I kept tweaking, but it was REALLY NOISY when I first got it (Rumble, Rumble, Rumble)--I could hear the magic through the noise and went on the quest to make the noise go away. I was about 90% successful--it's certainly not PERFECT, but it'll do! It's so freaking ALIVE it still takes my breath away even now . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Actually no, I don't work for microsoft. But I am curious to know why you asked? I'm just a college student who spends his days dreaming of fast cars and ways to make his heresy's even better. Peace, Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Because the TD-124 needs so much care, the one offered to me is tempting and somehow I feel that one day it might end up in my main system, but the seller knows about its quality as a table and has changed all the internal parts and so the price is certainly considerably higher than those $400. When it comes to the MC-30s (and the AE-1 btw.), I shall be posting my listening experiences once I find the time to do so. Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted October 17, 2003 Author Share Posted October 17, 2003 Just teasing you Josh - it was a Microsoft kind of answer. Hmmm. Here we go with the Linn again. Well, I could get one - there is one 2nd hand in the shop opposite the office. He wants about $1000 for it and will take my project in PX for it. Bit worried about all this setup and maintenance stuff. I tend to like to spin vinyl at a moment's notice - I dont want to have to re-align a bunch of stuff, add oil, tweak and who knows what else just to hear a disk. I know that all of the above is an exaggeration - but I want fairly maintenance free if possible. The VPI does look interesting - I will have to see who does it here. The thing about the Clearaudio I like more than anything else is the upgradability. Whilst the Champion may be only a moderate upgrade over the RPM 4 (note - I said may be - I havent heard it yet), the upgrade path does produce, at level 2, a very serious TT indeed (again - according to others - never heard it). Fully upgraded I expect it will outperform the VPI - if nothing else, by that time it will have cost double the VPI. Also interested in Kelly's summary that the VPI arm is better than the Project 9. Remember that my Project 9 is not the standard one having the better bearings, straight through wiring (clearaudio sixstream) and high quality connectors at both ends. Again I am not saying it is not a better arm - just trying to make sure we are comparing the right things. Summary - bit more hunting required! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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