Front Projectors -- Infocus X1 and other low $$??

[lancestorm]

The general consensus is that you need to be at least 1.5 times the width (or diagonal, depends on who you ask) of the screen in distance from the screen. 2 times is even better to avoid screen door. If you are 15 feet away, or 180 inches...you could go with a 90 - 120 incher screen, easily.

[dkp]

DougDrake-I have an 80" screen and am sitting about 10-12 feet away. I think that there are two things coming into play here. One is the quality of the image sent by the PS2 and the other my proximity to the screen. Don't get me wrong, I am blown away by the picture and the theatrical impact the screen size allows for my room. I can see the "screen-door," but it's because I am sitting too close to the screen. Even then, only occasionally is it an issue. I couldn't be happier with the items I purchased-especially at the price I paid. (I found a one-day special on the X1 through DELL for $799 and the screen was $370.)

I wound up with the Da-Lite Insta-Theater because I wanted something that I could use for work when I do 401(k) presentations etc, but mostly something that I could get out of the room when not in use. This screen is portable and I can slide it under my bed when it is not in use. I am also mounting the projector on a heavy-duty tripod (bogen). I screwed a piece of plywood onto the X1 and attached the quick-release camera holder to the plywood. What I have now is a quick release on the projector that allows for extremely easy setup/takedown. When not in use the screen and the projector are not seen. This helps maintain the "feel" of the family room. Of course the drawback is the time it takes to move these things from hiding and getting them setup. For me and what my wife wants for this room, it is a very fair tradeoff.

CO1-how can I find out if I am running the latest firmware?

-David

[CO1]

dkp, if you want info like that you will have to pay. PM me to get my PayPal info.

[CO1]

dkp, hit the menu button and go to the bottom selection, I think it says "about". There you will see what version you are running. Now go to http://www.infocus.com/service/x1/software.asp?site_lang=1&site_region=1& and check the latest version. Also make sure you read and follow the instructions before doing this as a bad flash can be the end.

[DrPyro]

tankhokie-

Testing a projector at home for a bit is THE best thing to do (also the most dangerous, I HAD to have one after playing at home too). It really gives you a feel for how things need to be setup and what IS important and what ISN'T to YOU!

This is what I learned from testing and owning a projector.

1) Choose a technology, LCD, DLP, ETC. -- ALOT of HT stores are promoting projectors so will often have alteast 2 setup. SO go to several and test out the technology. Make NOTES of the type of projector (brand & model#) and your impressions, note the brand and model of the screen. Most importantly, sit/stand at the screen width/sitting distance ratio that you will have in your setup. Preferably, zoom the projector to the width you want to use. Finally, CONTROL the lights to similar to your home setup, ambient light makes a HUGE impression on the image quality.

2) Choose YOUR range of resolutions. -- I found that since my screen size was fairly small (70" wide, sitting @ 10-12ft) that a high resolution projector wasn't a MUST to avoid the screen door effect. Plus at that time I wasn't planning on a HDTV system. However, I do have it now, but the 960 x 540 (1/4HD) doesn't bother me I STILL love HDTV!. As more things are actually PRODUCED in HD and not simply up-sampled then full HD MIGHT become more important.

3) Throw distance is CRITICAL! -- since I was table mounting my porjector, it HAD to fit in my room! Double & Triple check the distances.

4) Choose your connections! -- I wanted VGA for HTPC, component for my DVD, and s-video for my VCR. But to DVI or not DVI (digital video interface)?!?!? However, I QUICKLY learned that video cables of LARGE distances (10-40') were bloody expensive. DVI cables are almost the worst, but component are also expensive. So i decided to go with a HTPC-VGA only design since I also learned that my cheap & old PC resulted in a MUCH better DVD image then my DVD player. The X1 has component inputs but its inputted via the VGA connector so I couldn't connect the DVD & PC at the same time.

5) NOW you can choose which projector will work best for you...

Connections & Scaling.....

I'll try to address the signal path and progressive questions. The "old" analog TVs used what is referred to as an "interlaced" signal. That is if you take a picture, aka "frame", and split it into a bunch of horizontal lines. To over simplify, just think of what a paper shredder does to a sheet of paper. They then split the "frame" into two "fields". One field has all of the odd number line and the second has all of the even lines. So to see a full picture, you need to "interlace" to fields to see it, hence the name interlaced. So, if this information is stored digitally, the information is stored as fields/interlaced. On the other hand, if the frame isn't split into fields, its referred to as "progressive". So when ppl talk about video formats, you will see 480i, 480p, 720i, 720p, 1080i, 1080p, etc, the numbers refer to the number of horizontal lines of data that is stored and "i" refers to if the data is stored/transmitted in interlaced/field format, while "p" refers to data stored as frames/progressive format.

The problem occurs with your display. The TV is now having the same problem the PC monitors had around 10-15 years ago. We are transitioning between a display that thinks in a "interlaced" way to one that thinks in a "progressive" way. Its all a matter of your display! If it thinks in a progressive way, it wants progressive signals. Most PC type displays, aka LCDS and DLPs, refresh their panels in a progressive fashion. While most old analog TVs require "interlaced" signals. SO, you must have something that will translate the source data format into the format that your display will understand. What your DVD player is doing is outputting the original resolution (480) of the DVD and either outputting a progressive or interlaced signal depending on the user specified settings. There are quite a few methods that can be used to create a progressive image from an interlaced source, so I won't go into them here, one of the better ones is by Faroudja.

The second part is the resolution and scaling. I'll talk about fixed pixel displays, LCD, DLPs, Plasma, etc, since I'm not comfortable with CRT technology. These displays all have a "native" resolution, which is the physical resolution of the technology. Therefore, if your source has 480 lines of horizontal resolution and your display has 768 lines, the display has to interpolate the extra lines so it can display an entire panel of information. This interpolation is referred to Scaling and is basically necessary for all modern fixed pixel displays. For the modern display, this is built-in to the display.

Okay, what about connections and such?!?! Basically almost any display you will buy has scaling and de-interlacing capability. So check what inputs a projector will accept, 480i, 480p, etc (and through what connection!!!!), most modern projectors you won't have a connection problem. Most DVD players output 480i or 480p, they don't scale the image to 1080 or 720 (there are a FEW that do scale, but are in trouble with MPAA) so you will rely on the scaling built into the projector. What some users are doing is buying systems that are dedicated scalars and/or de-interlace which may do a better job then that built into your DVD player or projector. This is why many use a HTPC to watch DVDs, since with a HTPC you can easily output the native resolution of the projector thus bypassing its internal scalar & de-interlacer of the projector. Many users believe that the scaling and de-interlacer of the PC is superior to that of most DVD players & projectors. The image from my HTPC is significantly better (much much more detailed) then my DVD player, but I believe that it difference is more due to the quality of the dvd player image (very soft) then the scaling/de-interlacing issues.

Hope this helps....Sorry for the long post..OUCH!

-Dave

[tankhokie]

dave,

that was great. i have a better grip on output/input.

that also cleared up the progressive/interlaced issue...am i right in saying that high def is totally seperate from the prog/interlace? i believe that high def just means that there is a higher number of lines res. so less scaling occurs--which means a more detailed picture.

the advice about dvd outputs and htpc has begun a new journey of searching for me...i remember that when running the epson, the image was a little soft...didn't think of hooking up a htpc to it.

so off i go in search of my dvd/laptop/desktop output values...

thanks again!!

[tankhokie]

i found my dvd player outputs 480i/480p through the component jacks.

i can't find the output from my laptop's cdrw/dvd player...i looked in the system spec sheet and online.

anyone know how to find that out?

back to reading...

[CO1]

Your laptop will scale to just about any rez you want. I have 4 PC's that I run as HTPC's and one is a laptop. The laptop lacks the power of the other PC's but you don't need much power to run a software DVD player and in my case I'm even able to run a few FFDshow filters(except resize)which is all I really need. The big advantage is that it's portable so I usually carry a combo of laptop/projector when I travel. Sure beats the hell out of watching a 20-inch TV in the hotel room.

[DrPyro]

Tank-

Just think of the projector as your Computer display, and not the PC as a DVD player. All you need is a VGA cable and set the resolution on the PC and you are ready to go. There are lots of things that you can do to improve the sync between the computer & projector. One is to download Powerstrip which will all you to apply custom timings and such to your video card to get a perfect sync with the projector, it also allows you to feed the native resolution of the projector. The second is 3rd party filter, such as FFDShow that CO1 mentioned, these essentially allow you to manipulate the video image in real time (if strong enough CPU) and clear up some mpeg compression artifacts.

HOWEVER, the PC is not the pinnacle of perfection!!!! Depending on what other crap (programs) you have on it, it can be VERY unstable. Also, sometimes software DVD players have problems with certain DVDs and they crash your system (again and again). Also, they tend to be nosier then your DVD player. Also, control of the PC isn't nearly as easy as the DVD player, but I recommend an IR keyboard and just teach your remote the hotkeys which control the DVD programs. Its really for someone that ENJOYs screwing around with PCs. They usually have VERY LOW WAF & Kid friendliness!!! However, software dvd players like TheaterTek ($70) does allow for some unique features. One is that once you have setup a DVD it remember it and the next time its played it will bypass all of the menus and sound selection and just start playing from the start of the movie exactly how you set it up the first time! Also, TheaterTek has excellent hotkey support, its really meant to be controlled via a remote, not the mouse.

Forgot something....Software DVD players for PCs usually STINK on playing video sources (30 frames/sec material) they usually comb horribly! Also, dealing with pooly flaged material is very poor too....So keep this in mind!

What I would suggest is try out a few of the DVD software DVD players on your PC and liberate a projector from work and test out the quality difference between the PC & DVD player. If you like the DVD player image quality then don't use a PC, however, if you find that the PC is MUCH better, then it MIGHT be worth it to work toward a HTPC.

-Dave

[tankhokie]

ah ha!

that makes sense, thanks drpyro and co1, didn't see the forest through the trees.

on my laptop, i can switch to monitor 2 and adjust the res from 640x480

up to 1920x1080. not sure how that would look but sounds like fun.

one problem, i quit the job with the boss w/projector. he said he wanted the pj back, i said to shove it up his

ha just kidding, but i did leave that job. i may end up trying out the dlp infocus x1...just to test drive it and try out a lower $$ unit, but right now the epson powerlite 10 home pj has got me thinking. it is a new pj release and looks like a great deal...just can't find much info on it yet.

yall heard anything on it?